Worth the Upgrade to bayonet?

Discussion in 'Armory - Q&A' started by Cryptoniac, Apr 14, 2019.

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Is it worth upgrading three weapons to Bayonet?

  1. Stay with Two- Prong and Repair

    5 vote(s)
    83.3%
  2. Stay with Two- Prong and Buy New

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Switch to Bayonet

    1 vote(s)
    16.7%
  1. DHCJr

    DHCJr Armorer

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    Negrini and Camimari are compatible with each other, similar to LP and LP knock-offs. The Negrini is slightly longer, but they will fit in each others socket. Since the new FIE 2-prong rule, Carmimari hasn't been used, but before that at Worlds and Olympics that would be the only connector. I was talking to an Italian Armorer and he said if a fencer brings anything, but a Carmimari for Foil/Sabre, the connector is 'accidentally' cut off and replaced and the guard connector is lost also. And as I said before, non-Italian pommels & tips are lost also.

    I have them on my Foils, but since I haven't fenced since Sabre went electric, it has been a few years.
     
  2. sdubinsky

    sdubinsky DE Bracket

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    I'm really happy I proved your point, but I'm confused as to what it actually was. That non-American armorers don't like to improvise?
     
  3. DHCJr

    DHCJr Armorer

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    Partially. For example, the Oberg Gauge, lamé pad (Ted Li),portable weapons gauge (Car Oberg), Octopus cord (Dan), Dan Box and all the others homemade testers. US Armorers came up with these and more. Others, will use what has been done before. A former member of SEMI and a National Armorer there was one big difference between US and other Armorers, we share, not just ideas & experience, but also tools. A non-US national armorer will have 1 maybe 2 wrenches for tightening handles, I carried a dozen, some I have made, just in case.

    I don't know if you read the quote I put above, but it is why the US Armorer is approached by fencers and cadre from the other teams for help. To also show the difference, I was asked by a US cadre, why did the US fencer just present their weapon for inspection nonchalant and their opponent get down on their knee, brace their weapon on the table and appear to be praying? I told them our fencers know they will pass, the other is hoping it will.
     
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  4. neevel

    neevel Armorer

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    Regardless of Imperial vs. Metric measurements, the quality of materials and manufacturing tolerances on cheaper non-Leon Paul LP style sockets and plugs can cause fit compatibility issues, and more commonly, reliability issues. The LP bayonet design has a lot of screw-thread and surface-to-surface interfaces that are part of the conductive path; poorly fitting and corrosion-prone parts will cause problems.

    'Bayonet' is an over-subscribed term that is used to describe several connector styles. For example,
    Leon Paul bayonet:
    https://www.leonpaulusa.com/bodywire-bayonet-plug.html
    Negrini bayonet plug and socket:
    https://www.negrini.com/en/bayonet-foil-plug
    https://www.negrini.com/en/bayonet-foil-guard-socket

    Carmimari was similar in concept to the Negrini, but dimensionally a bit different; Tokyo Sport was also designed to the same concept but smaller than both Negrini and Carmimari. And then there was the Novascherma, the less said about the better.
     
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  5. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    That happens when you modify an existing commercially produced (in vast quantities) item like an auto lightbulb socket!

    Shawn Hart uses a coax connector for his foils. He gave me a copy of his cord in case I ever needed to test a weapon...but that was years ago and I've never had to use it because he knows how to maintain his gear. I would imagine he brings an adapter for his cords to the armory if he does an event with full control.
     
  6. sdubinsky

    sdubinsky DE Bracket

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    he does what now

    Does he have a reason? Or is it just "i'm bored fixing the easy problems, so I'm gonna give myself a really hard one!"
     
  7. SJCFU#2

    SJCFU#2 Podium

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    Presumably he feels that a BNC connector is more secure (did you ever hear of a saber captuer which had been properly installed coming loose in the middle of a bout?) and he has the tools to make installation easier.

    Or maybe he just wanted something that he would instantly be able to recognize as his and no one would ever want to borrow.
     
  8. sdubinsky

    sdubinsky DE Bracket

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    I've never actually heard anyone say they used a capteur at all, much less whether or not they were likely to come loose during a bout. I didn't even know they used coax cables.
     
  9. DHCJr

    DHCJr Armorer

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    They did not use coax cables. They didn't use any cables. The were just a BNC connector attached to a movement sensor. From best to really bad they used a diaphragm, spring or magnets to keep a ball in contact. A minimum movement would break the circuit.
     
  10. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    I have used capteurs. Yes, they occasionally came out on their own. ( We can debate about what is "properly installed", but they did come loose and go flying from time to time. )
     
  11. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    Better to stop pulling your cords out by the wire instead of the connector. Most repairs I do are resultant of that. Also wrap your cords by folding them and then tying in a loose knot instead of around your hand. That'll reduce wire breakage.
     
  12. SJCFU#2

    SJCFU#2 Podium

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    While technically it may not have been a "cable", there were a few centimeters of single-conductor wire connecting the center post of the BNC socket to the guard socket (didn't even move, yet somehow people managed to break it from time to time).

    Hence the part about being "properly installed". Since BNC connectors use pins and "J" slots, similar to the Italian bayonet connectors, once they're locked in place about the only way they can come loose and go flying is if something actually comes apart. But they can sometimes be difficult to lock in.
     
  13. Privateer

    Privateer Podium

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    use what the majority of fencers in your club or local area use. that way when all yours fail, you can borrow one more easily.
     

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