What would you like to see from your vendors?

Discussion in 'Armory - Q&A' started by Eisley, Jan 29, 2009.

  1. Eisley

    Eisley Rookie

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    They should be in all the colors the other ones are available in, though I'm not sure if we have every color in stock at the moment, and again the other ones have to sell out first.
     
  2. Alcibiades

    Alcibiades Rookie

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    Increased standardization of products. Two blades of the same type should not vary significantly in physical properties. The two individuals perhaps most responsible for revolutionizing industry in the United States--Andrew Carnegie and John D. Rockefeller, Sr.--both made massive strides in imposing uniform quality and consistency standards upon the products sold by their respective companies. The result? Costs fell, and customers were able to buy products securely, secure in the quality of an individual item.

    Fencing equipment is, of course, nowhere near as large an industry as the steel or oil industries. But the same principles, I feel, must be imposed.

    Furthermore, there must be greater transparency in the manufacturing process. Blades are often stamped inaccurately and sold at inconsistent prices, and the origin of a given piece is often unclear.

    Finally, manufacturers should always post all information on a piece of equipment, including protection level, length, mass/weight, distance from shoulder (if applicable), manufacturer/forge of origin, and structural rigidity.
     
  3. EldRick

    EldRick Podium

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    Re. colors, I'm going to have to see some pictures, since 90% of the secondary color is on the outside pockets, presumably now replaced by mesh.

    And where are the AF logos now?
     
  4. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    Part of that's due to the demand for the product, tho. Carnegie and Rockefeller had products in FAR greater demand than fencing blades.

    You also have to remember that the blades generally are NOT going through a computer-controlled manufacturing process...a great deal of the work is done by hand by a human being....that's going to put inconsistencies in the finished product, no matter how good the guy is.
    Only if it's cost-effective to do so....and right now it probably isn't, at least not to the level you propose (it'd be nice, tho)

    Examples?? I haven't seen inaccurate stamping that much...unless you're confusing that with a blade being stamped with the reseller's name and not the maker's (like blades stamped "Triplette," since Triplette doesn't MAKE blades), or rebadging (like the Uhlmann Ultra non-FIE blade actually being an StM)

    Information which will go over the head of MANY fencers...especially the more technical stuff.
     
  5. Alcibiades

    Alcibiades Rookie

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    I have no idea what I am talking about.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2009
  6. yearsofwisdom

    yearsofwisdom Rookie

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    It does. for BF whites it says BF FIE. Then higher up it usually has the resellers name such as Uhlmann or Tripplette.
     
  7. Alcibiades

    Alcibiades Rookie

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    [Prior post edited.]
     
  8. fencerchica

    fencerchica Rookie

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    But to some degree this variation is actually desirable to many fencers. For example, Vniti FIE epee blades may not differ substantially enough from one another to warrant the effort (and thus, added expense) of dividing them into two or more nearly identical categories. However for a picky fencer it can be worth it to pick through them until a particularly flicky/stiff specimen is located. If they were all identical this ability to "customize" would be lost.
     
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  9. yearsofwisdom

    yearsofwisdom Rookie

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    Agreed, thats why I prefer one of my BF whites over the other due to it being a little more stiff to add more point control. However, for most of these foils, we don't see a HUGE difference in their properties. A Vniti foil is always gonna be heavy and a tank...
     
  10. Alcibiades

    Alcibiades Rookie

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    But, ideally, wouldn't it be more desirable for a company to offer blades in varying degrees of stiffness?

    If they do it by hand...I would assume that the production could divided into a series of unskilled tasks to normalize the blades.
     
  11. Eisley

    Eisley Rookie

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    Vniti offers Foil blades that come in 2 clearly marked different stiffnesses, and we make FIE Foil blades that also are split in 2 like such.

    The way that blades are made, you really can't make every single one exactly the same and I agree with Fencerchica when she says that a lot of fencers like having slight variation between blades so they can be picky with them. The variations leaves a little something for everyone, and never do the blades vary so much that they don't feel like the same blades.
     
  12. Eisley

    Eisley Rookie

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    I will certainly take pictures and post them! I'll see if I can dig them out before the weekend and get pictures of them.
     
  13. yearsofwisdom

    yearsofwisdom Rookie

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    hey my bf white broke after 2 months of use. is there any sorta warranty or protection you wonderful ppl at AF have on it?
     
  14. Eisley

    Eisley Rookie

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    HA! Don't fencers wish there could be warranties on blades :(

    If it broke after the first use or within a week or something, then sometimes we can contact the manufacturer and do something about it. But a BF breaking after only 2 months of use, unfortunately, that's nothing strange at all and happens to a lot of fencers.

    The only blades that stand out in lifespan is the Vniti, other than that, even the most expensive, highest quality blades can easily break within a 2 month time period.

    You basically have the choice of quality vs. lifespan --not to say that Vniti is poor quality, but they are significantly heavier than other blades, and also get quite whippy, where as BFs have a very good over all balance.
     
  15. yearsofwisdom

    yearsofwisdom Rookie

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    hahaah it was worth a try. however how long do these vnitis usually last if you say they have good durability. my blade breaking was a combination of me having heavy touches and unluckiness of having someone run into it... and how does the vniti max compare in lifespan and exactly how much stiffer is it?? and how stiff is the vniti. i heard that they became lessdurable or something due to a new design??
     
  16. Eisley

    Eisley Rookie

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    I haven't heard anything about the Vniti blades having a new design that made them less durable, or experienced anything with this problem at all via customer service.

    As far as lifespan goes, I can't give you an exact time estimate, but what I can say is certainly longer than all other blades that I know of. Most of our customers have them for a couple years until they flat out get tired of them and just want new blades. Also, out of all the tons of people that come in with broken blades needing to be replaced throughout the year, the one that we see broken the least is Vniti (we're talking something like, once every couple months a single person will walk in with a broken Vniti, if even that often, and go, "It finally broke").

    As for the Max Stiffness version versus the regular version... Even "Max" isn't stiff compared to other stiff blades. I would recommend getting this version since the regular is very "whippy" once broken in and the Max like I said isn't stiff per se, it's more like it just isn't as "whippy". Also if you want to compensate for the weight at all, I'd recommend the German Titanic Light guard since they're the lightest, but also one of the strongest guards that we have. Out of all the guards this one is the only one that stands out in being noticeably lighter, and since it's Titanium you don't really compromise much durability as you would with maybe getting something like an Aluminum Light guard.

    All in all, to sum it up.. just picture a Vniti blade like... an over-sized rubber band somehow made into a blade. Instead of breaking it just goes "boing" and then returns to its shape. Also consider this though for point control too.
     
  17. yearsofwisdom

    yearsofwisdom Rookie

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    well what exactly do you mean whippyness? i hear that it is really flexible. where though? like the bf was flexible at the right point which was the foilible. and is there a difference between the lifespan of the max vs. the regular? i hear that stiffer blades tend to break easier?
     
  18. Eisley

    Eisley Rookie

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    By whippy I mean like a whip, or a wet noodle. It's not where it's flexible thats unpreferred by some, but more so the emphasis on all its movements. Also there's no difference on the lifespan between the max and regular. Yes, stiff blades for the most part tend to break easier (as anything more brittle usually does) however like I said, even the Max Stiffness blades aren't stiff in the true sense of the word, they're simply stiffer than the regular.

    If you're unsure.. order one. Practice with it without actually fencing anyone else or anything (since you can't return it once it's used-used) and get a feel for the blade. Worst case scenario if you don't like how it feels you return it.
     
  19. yearsofwisdom

    yearsofwisdom Rookie

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    alright that sounds good. and you recommend the Max? will it have less emphasis on all movements than the regular?
     
  20. Craig

    Craig Administrator Staff Member

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    A lot of people want the max, especially when the foil timings were more new. I don't find much of a difference between them and don't have a problem with point control on the standard vniti, even compared to a Chevalier or BF. It's just being aware of what tool you are using and fencing accordingly.

    The Vniti are a bit heavier than a CF or BF and they will last longer. The Vniti foil blades don't have as much "tip lag" as the epee blades do, but they are not as precise as a BF.

    If you were using a BF and want to try a Vniti, then go with the Max.

    Craig
     

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