What the #%^! with FWF epee parts

Discussion in 'Armory - Q&A' started by jjefferies, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. jjefferies

    jjefferies Podium

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    Ok, I did another thread on this but it went sideways about wires and I felt it best to post again to get to the heart of my question.

    As reported previously I was going nuts (or nuttier) trying to figure out where I had obtained some over sized tips. They were too large for all of the old barrels (German) I had or the brand new ones that Gary Spruill gave me in SLC. (Thank you Gary) Then I found a blade that I had set aside because of some problems, which had the appropriately sized barrel still attached. It is a BF with FWF branding lasered into it. But the over sized tips fit it and my older German tips were extremely loose in it. Seriously rattling around. So in the interest of nutty science I grabbed my electric vernier caliper and started measuring.
    My standard German tips ar approximately 4.95mm+/- .01mm.
    The oversized tips are 5.50mm +/- .02mm. (I only had two and multiple measurements gave slightly different readings, user error)
    I tried measuring the inner diameter of the barrels but verniers being verniers it was difficult and so I just went with the tips' diameters.
    But a .5 mm difference in diameters does seem a bit large for me. Further the reason that I had put the blade aside is that the tip (one of the oversized ones) did not have sufficient clearance for the contact spring. I actually modified a spring to allow it to work. Then I ran into issues with screws fitting properly. At which point I realized I no longer had any hair to pull out and put the blade aside to be rewired. The wiring was the original wiring that came with the blade when I bought it and has suffered no usage at all.

    So my assumption at this time is that the FWF BF blade was wired with FWF points.Has anyone else experienced similar issues?

    My solution is to take all the oversized/FWF tips and bury them under a stone or encase them in concrete and throw them in the SF Bay. But before I bad mouth FWF further want to know if anyone else has seen anything similar?
    best regards
    J.Jefferies
     
  2. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    Negrini body cords are the best out there. Don't you agree? :D
     
    ktinoue3 likes this.
  3. jjefferies

    jjefferies Podium

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    You thread hijacking bugger! ;)
    Yes I understand they're perfect for strangling
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  4. ktinoue3

    ktinoue3 Podium

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    I know that Negrini Epee tips are bigger. A lot of shims will not fit around the post causing referees that don’t know better to fail them.
     
  5. dcchew

    dcchew Podium

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    If check out your epee tip barrels, you’ll find that there’s probably no indication of which brand they are. Here are my “guesses” as to the possible sources of your problem.

    1. You may have run into some badly made barrels from a major manufacturer(s) that should have never left the machine shop.

    2. You have a batch of barrels (and/or tips) that we’re made in a little machine shop in the Far East. Low cost was the primary objective, not quality.

    The only manufacturer that I know of that laser etch their company name on epee barrels is Leon Paul. I only know this because I buy their titanium epee barrels for my personal equipment.

    Negrini sells 2 styles of epee tips. One is the conventional version which is very similar to other brands.

    The other epee tip is made by Schermasport which is what ktinoune3 is referring to. Totally different in design and not interchangeable with other brands.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  6. Fairfield_Fencing_Armory

    Fairfield_Fencing_Armory Made the Cut

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    I have run into the same issue. I had always assumed... before reading this thread... that the larger barrels were an older French design...
     
  7. jjefferies

    jjefferies Podium

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    Don't think they're French. I had a number of Prieur sets and had no problem with their fit. Just thought they(Prieur) wore out, i.e. elongated the screw slots, a bit faster. As I indicated I'm not absolutely sure these are FWF. Just they came on an FWF branded blade. The blade was purchased long enough ago that I've forgotten who the supplier was. Entirely possible that it was the supplier who put on bottom of the barrel tips which aren't FWF.
     
  8. SJCFU#2

    SJCFU#2 Podium

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    I remember Sport7 (another source of French points) sometimes having problems maintaining consistency from one parts run to the next.
     
  9. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    Yep....I got REALLY tired of their own tip parts not fitting together years ago. Haven't bought or sold French parts since.
     
  10. neevel

    neevel Armorer

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    The resellers stamp on the BF blade is no indication of what the point parts are. It's very common for vendors or club armorers to get bare blades and wire them with whatever points they are carrying. An FWF tip will have the FWF logo and "Made in Germany" etched into the head, and an FWF barrel will have them etched along the side of the barrel. I would hazard a guess that someone got a very good deal on a batch of points that were made out of spec.
     
  11. K O'N

    K O'N Podium

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    The QC on Sport 7 points is as good as FWF or LP, IME. Every once in a while I get a bad batch of Sport 7 tips that fit badly or don't pass the thick shim or something. Every once in a while FWF tips come apart, and according to OP they also can have fit issues. Every once in a while LP tips ground through the screws. They all sometimes have issues. Don't rely on the one last new tip you have in the drawer working if you haven't checked it, no matter who sold it to you.

    Sport 7 with LP screws or NEPS have been as reliable as any other parts set for me. They all seem about the same to me, excluding the very high end screwless points.
     
  12. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    I ran into so many Sport 7 issues, i stopped carrying their stuff a long time ago. FWF issues have been rare.
     
  13. twisterfencing

    twisterfencing Podium

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    jjefferies,

    It's Gary Spruill,

    Read your post, cannot find the question.

    I see your issue all the time. The ID (inside diameter) of a epee barrel from FWF-Uhlmann-Allstar is 5mm. Nothing more, nothing less. If you had dented your barrel, I would use a 5mm reamer to get the dent out.

    I go through somewhere north of 300 to 400 points a month and do not ever see this issue at 5.5mm or larger. AKA: something happened??

    My suggestion: get rid of any and all barrels that you find with this issue and replace them. Throw them off a cliff, and as you suggested: bury them. Either way, get rid of them.

    You want a glass like action up and down in a point. Anything other than that, fix it. :)

    Let me know if you need more. You have my number, I'm a talkie, not much on the typie.

    Gary

     
  14. brtech

    brtech Podium

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    5 mm reamer or 4.5 mm? Mine seems to be 4.5. The one you sell:
    https://www.swordmasters.com/reamer-foil-base
    seems to be 4.5

    Oh and would you please make sure you have one foil and one epee reamer in your SN kit for me? My foil one is dinged (my fault) and my epee seems to be pretty dull.

    Unless I'm in a real hurry, I use a mandrel on dings. It takes longer and is more work, but actually fixes the problem instead of the symptom. I'd rather work the metal to get it back to round than cut metal to compensate for the ding.

    But sometimes, you gotta get that weapon back in service now now now, and then the reamer is fast, efficient and effective.
     
  15. twisterfencing

    twisterfencing Podium

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    Brian,

    An epee reamer, German barrel is 5mm. The only exception to this is a Italian, which is 6mm.
    The reamer is:
    Chuck reaming, Right Hand, 0.1968, 6 flute, and I use a 45 degree flute on the end as a 5mm reamer.
    The foil is a 4.5mm, too much to list on this one.

    Gary Spruill

     

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