Vet tournaments: musings

Discussion in 'USA Veteran Fencing' started by Black Widow, May 23, 2017.

  1. Black Widow

    Black Widow Made the Cut

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    I just started to compete last year, and I have noticed that veteran competitions in the tri-state area often occur on the same date, so vet fencers have to choose where they will go-which results in fewer entries and/or cancelled tournaments. There's just not that many of us to go around. Then why would any club owner try to schedule more vet tournaments?
    It also seems that certain venues are favored, which could, of course, be for many reasons. I want to support clubs that are trying to add vet tournaments to their competition schedules.One club owner I spoke to wanted to host a vet tournament, but felt the entries just weren't there.
    Just wondered what the wise experienced vets think.:)
     
  2. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    Which tri-state area? If all fall within a Division's boundries, then contact that Tournament Chair. If various Divisions, then sadly there'll likely be conflicts. As to favored venues within a Division, that's up to the club owners and the Tournament Chair.
     
  3. Black Widow

    Black Widow Made the Cut

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    NY, NJ, Conn. There are multiple Divisions in this area so that seems to be the crux of the problem, you can have multiple tournaments for the same competitors on the same day, in fairly close proximity. In theory it's such a populated area that in most cases it probably doesn't have much effect, but we vets are a rare species.
     
  4. Zebra

    Zebra Podium

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    Whatever it is, you've got to fence them if you want the clubs to keep scheduling them. Don't just say "it's a great idea"--go pay your entry fee and fence!
     
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  5. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    True - even if you define tri-state as NY, NJ and PA.
     
  6. Privateer

    Privateer Podium

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    i've found one of the challenges (as an attendee) is consistency of attendance. My club had a combined vet in march, 19 people. decent size. we have another one in 10 days, 7 people (and one of those is questionable). Maybe we'll get 10 more signups in a week. I dunno.
     
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  7. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    Tournament organizers can enable the AskFred feature that displays who are paid vs. unpaid registrants. This reveals a more realistic forecast. Unfortunately, this also enables potential competitors waiting until the tournament achieves their criteria.
     
  8. Goldgar

    Goldgar Podium

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    Only, though, if they request prepayment via FRED. Many tournaments, maybe most, don't do that.
     
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  9. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    George Carlin might have asked "What is pre-payment? The payment before the payment?":rolleyes: Those that request early payment often offer a discount.
     
  10. Privateer

    Privateer Podium

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    i'm not sure how requiring pre-payment will encourage people to sign up?
     
  11. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    It doesn't. It only encourages them to SHOW up. It's always easier to justify blowing off a tournament if it doesn't cost you anything ( apart from the mild rancor of those who thought they were getting a competition of a certain size and/or strength and suddenly find out that they are not because a bunch of signed-up fencers discovered that they had better things to do ).

    What Mac A. Bee is talking about is signing up, not paying and then making the decision whether to commit ( by paying ) or not based on how many fencers of what rating are on the paid list. You see this a lot on FRED---a handful of A-rated ( or whatever ) fencers on the "registered but not paid" list, clearly waiting for other A-rated fencers to show up on the "registered and paid" list. If enough do to suit them, they pay, show up and fence. If not enough do, they let the deadline pass and don't fence.
     
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  12. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    In addition to Inquartata's excellent exegesis, in my and adjacent Divisions, some offer discounts for paying early, less for unpaid registering and none for walk-ins. The Divisions follow the national model, i.e. entry, double, treble. A club could offer a nominal registration fee, e.g. $10, with a door-paid balance. That makes the fencer have some skin in the game without a tremendous penalty for withdrawal. The registration fee also assists ref hiring estimates and subsidizes pay if over-hiring occurs.
     
  13. fdad

    fdad Podium

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    There is a club in our division that frequently schedules weeknight events. They cancel the event if they do not get enough pre-paid registrants by the day before. When they cancel they give you credit for the next event, instead of refunding your fee. This has left me not wanting to prepay until I know that enough others have already prepaid to ensure that the event will be actually held. I suspect that many others are using the same logic, since these event are almost always cancelled now.
     
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  14. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    And?
     
  15. pinbot

    pinbot Made the Cut

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    Sounds like the club is doing what they can to put it in your hands. If you guys want tournaments, sign up, show up, fence. Pretty simple.

    I don't understand the 'logic' you are citing. Is it really that big a deal if the club holds a registration fee for an extra week or two? It's not like you really lose the money. And on the flip side, as you observe, you are sabotaging the tournaments and just depriving yourself.
     
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  16. Black Widow

    Black Widow Made the Cut

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    This is really frustrating for me as well.:( Glad I'm not alone.
    Geez, all I wanna do is fence.
     
  17. fdad

    fdad Podium

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    The logic is that I cannot prepay with my "credit" via askfred, so my interest doesn't count towards holding the event unless I pay again, knowing that it might be cancelled again. Also, the time between my being granted this credit and being able to use it is often fairly long - several months not an extra week or two, and I don't want to have to deal with maintaining and presenting the evidence of my "credit".
     
  18. Zebra

    Zebra Podium

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    No, but you can ask the organizer to mark your registration as paid.
     
  19. mfp

    mfp Podium

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    Sounds like the club is the one doing the sabotaging.

    If the goal of the club is to hold events, then they really should take into account the desires / preferences / needs of who they're trying to attract to the events.

    If the goal of the club is to annoy people, looks like they're succeeding.
     
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  20. jkormann

    jkormann Podium

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    Found your problem. Weeknight events are hard to attend. I'm in the 40+ category and find going to a late practice, which is less exercise than an event sometimes, then work the next day is impossible. I'd be hard-pressed for a full-up tournament that ends around 11pm.
     
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