US Fencing Future Stars Program.

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by Allex, Jan 26, 2012.

  1. Allex

    Allex DE Bracket

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  2. fdad

    fdad Podium

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  3. pillow

    pillow Podium

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    Camps are worthless garbage. You learn by taking lessons with your personal coach and by fencing in competition. I have yet to meet a high level fencer who made significant improvement from a "camp."
     
  4. Jason

    Jason Podium

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  5. hello?

    hello? Podium

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    Weird. Stress tied to performance way too early, it seems to me. Why? Let them have fun first...
     
  6. Allex

    Allex DE Bracket

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    This.

    IMHO more pressure will produce more losses for fencing.
    I recall having a beverage with a friend 3-4 years ago, he's a twice Olympian - very accomplished coach, we fenced together decades ago, and for a short time he was my coach - his kid just started getting points in Y12; and the whole hour or so conversation was centered on his puzzlement in regards to why so much pressure, stress, and travel is being piled on kids.
     
  7. Mr Epee

    Mr Epee Rookie

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    A) Is it actually free for participants? Travel, room, board, etc. inclusive? I didn't read that in the linked article, but other information may be in circulation. It's difficult to imagine that USA Fencing would be able to subsidize a staff of a dozen people for a week plus a trip to Disney World.

    B) Camps, especially for younger athletes, can be very good opportunity to establish and solidify identity within the sport; some will 'get it' others will not. Don't underestimate the value of an opportunity to unleash holy hell for a week solid on your competition. That'll certainly carry over to in-season competition.

    C) It's not entirely clear why this would need to be a USA Fencing operation, but NGB's are notorious for handing hat feathers to favorite sons and daughters. So, this incarnation should come as no surprise to anyone.

    D) There is probably some merit in offering kids an opportunity to get extended contact time with established elite athletes.

    E) I would be more comfortable, if this were a private enterprise that didn't rely on the national ranking of kids for participation.

    G) There is an aspect of youth fencing that involves wealthy parents flying their kids around the country, around the world, and posting pictures to Facebook of their 12 year old Olympic hopeful swimming with dolphins. There are a class of fencing kids who at the age of 14-15 actually have strong informed opinions about forms of international travel and ground conditions in Stockholm, Budapest, Bratislava, and a dozen other European countries. This is something of a fairly recent development. For whatever reason, USA Fencing appears to support this development model, and I suppose that's ok. I'd say that this camp project is quite inline with that development model.

    Have-nots need not apply.
     
  8. pillow

    pillow Podium

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    I think calling this a "model" is probably giving it more respect than it deserves, but I'm going to assume you are being a bit snarky on purpose. It's quite clear to those of us who have been around "elite" youth fencing for more than 15 minutes, that there is no "model." The USFA flies by the seat of its pants with this stuff. The HP Director position, which is supposed to develop a unified plan for fencers has been a revolving door joke for years. Funding for Cadets and Juniors who have fenced around the world on their parent's dime is a disgrace.

    As much as I respect the coaches involved with this endeavor, I'm supposed to get excited by this "camp" for rich kids?
     
  9. Mr Epee

    Mr Epee Rookie

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    Of course it's a model, and it's a model that suits some folks just fine. Market disorganization and weak regulation is a recipe for success. Not everyone's success, of course.

    There's a reason the HP director is a revolving door job. As it stands, I doubt anyone could ever do the job.

    You mean starting to give money to people who have already demonstrated that they don't really need it?
    It's kind of brilliant, if you stop to think about it.

    No, you're supposed to go about your business and save your outrage for something actually outrageous... or at least new under the sun. Like it or not, the interests of a group of parents with the resources to drop 10-20k/year on their 12-17 year old kid's hobby are a higher organizational priority than however many years you and the rest of the people like you have dedicated to the sport. Did I mention that quite a few of these kids are likely headed to elite universities? They are clearly a better class of people (in your heart, you already know this), and y-14 is as good an age as any to start reaping the benefits of privilege. Time to get with the program.

    Nothing new here. Move along.
     
  10. rudd

    rudd Podium

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    Communist!! :)
     
  11. kathe23

    kathe23 Made the Cut

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    Another perspective: The opinions expressed here are presented by a fencing parent whose child is in the top 15, as well as someone who believes in offering kids the opportunities to pursue their passions. (Unless it's video games. I hate those.)

    With the exception of the possiblity of funding for an International Y15 event (who knew!), how is this any different than the camps that are offered for the top ranked cadets and juniors? My guess is that the top 15 on the Y14 points lists aren't 8 - 9 year olds, but 13-15 year olds.

    To me it sounds like an interesting opportunity, although how the Coach will feel is yet to be determined......
     
  12. fdad

    fdad Podium

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    Not too different, I don't like paying for those either.
     
  13. Allex

    Allex DE Bracket

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    Frankly sounds like a junket for someone who adopted this program, with some money being kicked back to someone or something by somebody in Florida.
     
  14. fencerX

    fencerX Rookie

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    See? US Fencing can indeed learn lessons from the eastern european way ...
     
  15. oiuyt

    oiuyt Podium

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    The Future Stars Program is budgeted to run a surplus. The surplus is slated to mostly, but not completely, balance a deficit in Coaches College (run at the same location in the couple of weeks prior to the Future Stars Summer Program). Per financial information provided as part of the Board call last week.

    -B
     
  16. fdad

    fdad Podium

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    What percentage of the 90 (2x3x15) eligible fencers must participate in order for this surplus to be realized?
     
  17. oiuyt

    oiuyt Podium

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    The numbers I saw were based on 90 participants. There was no information included (that I recall) about eligibility to be a participant, how participants were going to be selected, solicited, replaced, recruited, or otherwise encouraged to participate.

    -B
     
  18. fdad

    fdad Podium

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    "an eight-day camp that will be held for the top 15 male and top 15 female athletes in each weapon (epee, foil and saber) ... who will be selected from the Y14 National Points Standings as of May 7, 2012"

    I would be amazed if attendance approached 100%.
     
  19. ravlik

    ravlik Made the Cut

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    Kick back schemes were probably working in Ancient Egypt and before, do not blame/prise eastern europe for them
     
  20. oiuyt

    oiuyt Podium

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    I saw that. I was specifically referring to the (extremely limited) information provided alongside the financial projections.

    -B
     

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