Discussion in 'Water Cooler' started by jjefferies, Jun 24, 2017.
Which part of this Presidency isnt?
Rex is fired. Read a good snark today, "The only thing that works in this administration is the revolving door."
Well, that should make everyone happy. Right? To the left it's another unqualified anti-government crony capitalist gone, to the right it's another swamp-draining.
Well, I'm not sure how it can be "swamp-draining" when it was Trump who put Tillerson in that job to begin with.
One can still drain a swamp even if one first pours water into it oneself.
Sure, but you cant then brag about it.
Can't you? Remember, this is Trump we're talking about. All the rules of normal behavior are out the window.
Meanwhile PA18 swung 20 points and Lamb appears to have won by 600 votes or something. Average swing of 17 points in special elections so far.
November is coming.
In what way is a few or even many Democrats being elected going to change anything? Trump will still be President and he's unlikely to work any better with Congressional Democrats than with Congressional Republicans. And even a majority Democrat Congress is not going to accomplish any more than a majority Republican Congress has.
Gridlock is coming.
I am not at all hopeful that the House under Democrats will work better with Trump than the House under Republicans did. To be honest that hadn't even occurred to me. And at this point I think gridlock is about the least of our worries.
I am a bit hopeful that the Democrats taking the House will lead to a real House investigation of Trump's various bad acts, that Mueller's report will be made public, and that Trump will be charged with any crimes he appears to have committed. Out on the extremes of what I hope floats the possibility that the House brings charges of impeachment so that individual Senators have to vote up or down to to impeach him, and that covering for a clearly criminal POTUS in turn leads to even more of a Senate bloodbath in 2020 than the Republicans are already headed for.
He's done an astonishing amount of stuff that ranges from bad to illegal, and the House has covered for him. If the Democrats take the House they will stop covering for him, and might actually look into some of it. That sound nice to me, doesn't it sound nice to you? I think it sounds nice.
What has he done that's "illegal"? As in actually demonstrably done, as opposed to accusations and allegations and "impending" charges?
Before, or after his election?
Also, "illegal" is irrelevant when it comes to impeachment. To your question of "In what way is a few or even many Democrats being elected going to change anything?"... well, that's the answer.
If that entire family isn't neck deep in money laundering I'd be amazed. The whole thing reeks. That's why he keeps telling Mueller to stay away from his business, the whole thing is rotten. Tons of money laundering for the Russians.
Beyond that, is it actually illegal to cover up Russian interference in a US election? Was it illegal to help them? All up to the House, I guess.
I'm pretty sure it's also illegal to bribe government officials, like for example the Florida Attorney General. But, yeah, the more evidence that comes out the more it looks like other then the run-of-the-mill tax evasion schemes and all around frauds (Trump University, etc), Trump has also been conducting money laundering and in many cases with Russians. So, not surprising that they'd end up with tons of dirt on him, and given how easy he is to manipulate, why they'd want him in the White House... I mean, other than Putin's all encompassing hatred of Hillary.
OK, I know that you believe he's done illegal things. I know that you are hoping that he's done illegal things which will be proven eventually. I would just like to hear one thing which he can actually be shown to have done that's illegal, right now.
I mean, otherwise "He's done an astonishing amount of stuff that ranges from bad to illegal" is a fact not in evidence.
Start here -
Sabotaging democracies is American as apple pie, we're the undisputed masters of it. That's why the Russian interference in the 2016 election doesn't register more than an eyeroll from me. It's obviously bad and there should be criminal repercussions, but I'm not holding out on it, certainly not the "collusion" part anyways.
Obstruction of justice is the easy one. Firing Comey alone was sufficient for that, and since then he's made things even worse for himself by repeatedly trying to intervene with the various investigations (or asking others to do it on his behalf).
Also LOL if you think all dozen+ women who accused him of sexual harassment/assault are just lying (including a sworn deposition by Ivana Trump).
Currently going through the courts..."Emoluments Clause". The first was dismissed due to the party not having a standing but the others seem to have legs.
Not to mention that Trump is making a killing from all the services he is providing the U.S. Government for actions he takes. There has to be something about that... seems mighty immoral. Though my heathenistic views don't count.
Not saying anyone is lying. But those are allegations at this point. AFAICT Trump has not been demonstrated to have done anything "illegal". Hence the saying "Innocent until proven guilty". Claims are not convictions.
Now, "bad" I will give you. But thus far I can't think of anything "illegal" being shown.
At the very least, as Posineg says, he appears to be blatantly violating the Emoluments Clause.
Beyond that, Mueller seems very busy. Either he's finding crimes or he is not. If he is, either Trump is directly involved or he is not.
So you can combine those as you like and assign probabilities, I guess. Nothing going on? Trump really not involved, it was all underlings? Ok.
We, of course, do not have all the proof yet. But absence of proof is not proof of absence. Mueller is a serious guy, and he seems to think there's something there.
Separate names with a comma.