I have no video for this, and (as you may guess from the two variations presented), the facts are in dispute. Still I would appreciate it if you could explain the ruling in each of the two cases described. This is in epee. Case A In this case, the order of events is: Fencer on the left begins an attack. Fencer on the right turns his back as described in rule t27.2. Fencer on the left's attack arrives and the light goes off. Case B In this case, the order of events is: Fencer on the right turns his back as described in rule t27.2. Fencer on the left begins an attack. Fencer on the left's attack arrives and the light goes off. Penalties and touches In each of the two cases, can you tell me: Does fencer on the right receive a Group 1 penalty for "turning the back"? Does fencer on the left's touch count (I'm asking about the touch indicated by the light, not any touch that might result from a penalty on fencer on the right)? Is there any penalty on fencer on the left for an attack that lands (or, in Case B, starts) after his opponent's back is turned? If the referee believes that fencer on the right turned his back in order to cause a halt and avoid a touch is there any additional penalty on him (and if so, under what rule)? My initial thought was that in both cases, fencer on the right gets the Group 1 penalty and fencer on the left does not get the touch. The problem I have with my answer is that this would give a fencer a one time opportunity to avoid a touch by turning his back (hence my 4th question). Obviously parrying would be a more effective way to avoid a touch, but perhaps fencer on the right had just missed on an attack and isn't in a position to parry. I haven't stated, in either case, when the referee actually said the word "Halt" as I believe that is not relevant. Is that true? If it is relevant, then assume the referee intended to call halt as soon as fencer on the right turned his back, but didn't manage to articulate the word until after the light came on.