This mask is SICK!!

Discussion in 'Armory - Q&A' started by fatfencer, May 16, 2011.

  1. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    Still wrong. If it isn't uniform, it isn't A uniform, even if it's called one.

    If it's called one, it should BE one. Ours is called one so it should BE one. And that's true of any others as well...
     
  2. downunder

    downunder is a Verified Fencing Expertdownunder Podium

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    Ah I see how this works now. Examples and evidence are pointless because the factual evidence is flawed if it goes against your viewpoint.

    But small differences are still ok because you say so? And mixing up parts of speech is ok because you say so?

    It's probably pretty fun twisting arguments so you can't be "wrong", but it's dull and frustrating for everyone else. I'm out. Your zingers about me refereeing are pretty hilarious too. Isn't there a latin fallacy for that?
     
  3. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    "Small differences are ok" because they have always been part of the ways in which uniforms have been used; large, individual, personally chosen differences have not.

    Different parts of speech are used differently; this does not make the word itself different in its essential meaning. I fear that it is you who are "mixed up" on that point.

    Your zingers about me using Latin are pretty hilarious too. Isn't there a Latin fallacy for that? :blah:
     
  4. SpiralGalaxy

    SpiralGalaxy Rookie

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    The fallacy I see here isn't one for which I know a Latin name. Is there a Latin equivalent for 'moving the goalposts?'
     
  5. VorpalCat

    VorpalCat Podium

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    Hey, it's not Inq's fault you guys keep putting quarters into his hobby horse ride. As long as that pony keeps rocking, he's going to keep riding! :)
     
  6. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    Oh bull####...a uniform is any consistent manner of dress specific to an organization or group....that applies to military units, marching bands, police and fire departments, sports teams/organizations, etc.

    Velvet Knights' tacky Hawaiian shirt/khaki pants/Panama hat combo were consistent throughout all 128 members of the corps....it was their designated wear for performances...THUS, IT WAS THE UNIFORM OF THE CORPS.

    The cavalry-style jacket I wore in Blue Devils was the designated item for performances....THUS, IT WAS THE UNIFORM OF THE CORPS

    Are you being deliberately stupid here or what???
     
  7. wdragon007

    wdragon007 DE Bracket

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    I think he's more "stubborn" than "stupid". And he does so like stoking the fires, doesn't he? ;)
     
  8. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    Y'know...I completely missed the best example of non-uniform uniforms in the military....people working the flight deck on an aircraft carrier...different colored uniform shirts depending on the specific job required....the uniform for a pilot is not the same as for a fueler, or an ordinance guy, or a safety officer....
     
  9. fatfencer

    fatfencer Podium

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    The bold is an assertion on your part. Prove it!
     
  10. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    They don't all have accepted Latin names. However, you aren't "seeing" any such thing. This point goes back at least to post #44: Other organizations which wear widely variable clothing don't call them "uniforms", from the supposed counterexamples people have posted thus far. Those which do call them uniforms tend to require a degree of---surprise!---uniformity. If an organization calls it a uniform, as OURS does, then it should be uniform, to the same degree that other exemplars are, and with the same departures which every other exemplar includes. ( Eg names, rank insignia, unit insignia, etc. ) And if we insist on allowing NON-uniformity beyond that, to the point of individual choice and taste, then we should not call it a uniform. Because uniforms...are...uniform.

    But speaking of goalposts...see below. :)

    You know what, Sam? If you can't keep it civil, then eff the eff off, OK?

    I seldom resort to this sort of comment, but you're over the line. Step back over it, or get stuffed.

    In the meantime, for everyone else, let's try a quasi-Aristotelian exercise, shall we? ( Since nothing else appears to be penetrating the wall of I-Like-It-So-You-Can't-Be-Right-About-This. :) )

    Take a look at This photo of the Minnesota Vikings and Chicago Bears(sss) football teams and tell me whether you agreed that each team is wearing a uniform. Set aside for the moment the question of whether or not they are uniform in the adjectival sense. Do they in your sundry opinions qualify as uniforms, in the sense of the noun?

    After a few of you weigh in, if you care to do so, we can proceed to the next step...

    Edit: The link goes to a series of photos, and starts you on #1. I was actually using #16 as the example.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2011
  11. foibles

    foibles Podium

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    You voted for Nixon, didn't you.

    Still got it in for all these hippies wantin' to "change the world" huh....;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2011
  12. fatfencer

    fatfencer Podium

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    Sam isn't insulting you but is merely describing your behavior as asinine. Earlier, He appealed to you several times to look at his ev and you gave him no courtesy. The above bold is fallacy several times over, including circular reasoning.

    The main word you use, you used it after all, was 'degree'. Who appointed you judge over which degree of differentiation is acceptable? Ultimately that group who wears the 'uniform' ought to decide if it is 'uniform enough'. Not you. You don't get to decide for the rest of us, ignoring dictionary definitions merely because they aren't convenient for you.. and worse yet, using your own anecdotes and 'reasoning' and passing it off as factual.

    The second problem of your reasoning involves 'Should' or its fraternal twin, 'ought' Any time you use either of those two its likely some line of thinking is fraught with peril. After all, who says we ' should'?? You? Who gives a toss what you think. You certainly don't have supreme authority over American Standard English. If usage of dictionaries = 'appeals to authority' = fallacy, being a narcissist in tandem i.e. appealing to yourself is worse, I think. I've seen you dress; you opining on style makes me chuckle.

    Uniforms, IMHO, need not be exact duplicates, and even beyond concepts of rank, insignia, etc., they only need to be recognizably similar enough, vaguely homogeneous such that that group of people is identifiable as sharing a common task or diversion.

    Catholic HS debaters in ages past often wore a 'uniform' including a stylized blazer with school emblem and pants. But many more liberal catholic schools allow them to decorate how they wish. Pins, flair, sewn on decor, you get the idea. Same with choruses, though I am only familiar with public school ones.

    Why beat a dead horse Inq? Doing so will not make you more right. Your stubbornness borders on the obscene. Stop digging. Take a deep breath, announce your wrong, take a Xanax and drift off to sleep. It's called being a man.

    FF

    PS: The ' tend to require a degree of' line is an explicit admittal of your being wrong. You've been claiming absolute uniformity this whole time, but for the 'insignia' kind of thing. But 'tend to require a degree' is much less strict.

    PPS: I have told you that taking a stance in debate is infinitely more difficult than being a critic and that the 'critic' stance is all but gone by the wayside in modern argumentation because negation, for the sake of intellectual honesty, requires more active argumentation. I hope you believe me now.. because I am enjoying your usual role to the utmost. Payback is a______.:)

    PPPS: http://www.ehow.com/how_5117538_customize-uniforms.html and http://www.best-karate-equipment.com/karate-uniform-embroidery/
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2011
  13. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    You know what, Paul? When someone presents evidence to refute your point, you could give them the courtesy of actually looking at it.

    You can't tell someone in a debate or in court that you won't look at evidence provided.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2011
  14. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    Then you could say that without adding gratuitous insults, couldn't you?
     
  15. fatfencer

    fatfencer Podium

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    Or... you could act less insult-worthy... :p) And if you read the thread... he did it twice at least.. tell yu that is.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2011
  16. erooMynohtnA

    erooMynohtnA Podium

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    So what you're telling me is that something like puttng mask mesh behind a visor is unacceptable to you, since that would be a large, individual, personally chosen difference, the only purpose of which is self expression through nonuniformity? Is that correct?
     
  17. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    Nope. That would be a protest...one which was expected to be punished, or at least derogated. Having it ignored was vastly disappointing.

    Fortunately, the stupid things are optional at present, and the question no longer need arise.

    Now...would you care to participate in the Socratic exercise, or are you like everyone else hesitant lest it actually push you into a corner from which you could not escape with your idiosyncratic opinion on what constitutes a uniform intact?
     
  18. erooMynohtnA

    erooMynohtnA Podium

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    Yes, they are wearing uniforms, but I hope you'll speed up your exercise.
     
  19. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    You mean like the corner you painted YOURSELF into that I disproved with several examples???
     
  20. erooMynohtnA

    erooMynohtnA Podium

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    No, because he ignored them, therefore they don't count. He has better things to do, after all, like complain about how people ignore his thought experiment and hurt his feelings.
     

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