This mask is SICK!!

Discussion in 'Armory - Q&A' started by fatfencer, May 16, 2011.

  1. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    Rather depends on whether their rules call them uniforms or not, doesn't it?

    And they are out of uniform. As in, out of. You know?

    Is this unclear somehow?

    I'm not sure what your argument is.

    I am trying to avoid watching videos of drum corps when I could be watching Cyrus of Chaos' sabre videos instead. Time is not in infinite supply. :)

    I can but shrug and lift my palms. In wartime, "s##t happens". Some of it is passing strange. Standards get...relaxed. That doesn't mean that the standards cease to exist, or that the standard now recognizes all those idiosyncracies.

    It could also be argued that those are parts of the equipment of the aircraft rather than uniform items. Ever see them worn in formations?

    NB Just searched AR 670-1, Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia ( the US Army Uniform Regulations ). Aviator or flight helmets are neither described nor depicted, so apparently they are not part of the uniform. )

    I'm confused. You brought up door gunner helmets, and now you are saying they aren't relevant?

    That's not utility. Things which affect those engaged in the sport---those have utility.

    What utility do military uniforms have for the civilians back home?


    Appeal to Inexpert Authority. A website is not the authoritative source of definitions for a sport. The official documents of the governing body are.

    This page http://usfencing.org/resources/fencing-facts appears on the US Fencing webpage. See how many howlers you can spot on it.


    That's my whole point: It's contradictory. If it's a uniform, it should be a uniform. If not, they should call it something else.

    But what...do they call the clothing?
     
  2. downunder

    downunder is a Verified Fencing Expertdownunder Podium

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    All adjectives must be nouns! All of them!
     
  3. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    Regardless of what they're wearing, an undercover cop is on duty while performing the task assigned. The guy who infiltrated the Mongols motorcycle gang couldn't do it in the same clothing he would if he was walking a beat, could he? He had to dress properly for the job. The only thing uniform about his clothing was the club vest, especially when he got patched.

    Oh, for the love of....you made a claim and I cited and PROVIDED several examples that refuted your claim....a claim about an activity which, to be blunt, I have more experience in and knowledge of than anyone else on this board....and you don't even look a it???
     
  4. fatfencer

    fatfencer Podium

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    Sam, why are you surprised? From Inq's perspective, its enough to provide some shallow saying or another from da interwebs. he rarely provides any evidence of his own.. that actually requires active argumentation. Rather, he merely criticizes.

    However in this case, he actually makes an initial claim and provides no evidence. Worse yet, nearly everyone who has posted on this thread HAS provided evidence that he either misreads or ignores entirely, blithely applying some simple comment and hoping that suffices.

    I think most people have caught on that he rarely actually argues, instead opting for the simple.. the safe harbor of pure negation.

    Weak sauced.

    FF

    PS: I don't even think he realizes he's having so much trouble in this thread because he so rarely advances any claim of his own. It's unfamiliar territory for him argumentatively speaking, and so he falls into his old habits which in this case leave him fully exposed.
     
  5. mlbole01

    mlbole01 Rookie

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    Having a painted mask in fencing does have some utility for me. My opponents cannot see my eyes and cannot tell where I'm looking. I've been told this multiple times.
     
  6. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    And he's not in a uniform. What about this is confusing you?
     
  7. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    Actually, in a sense he was....he was in the MONGOL'S uniform...the major piece being the club vest with whatever identifying patches he's earned...and a uniform with pretty severe penalties for wearing something you hadn't bee authorized to wear.


    Then why don't you go ahead and look at the examples I provided....or are you afraid to get proven wrong by someone with far more expertise in the endeavor used as an example than you??

    I'll even give you some help....the uniform for the Velvet Knights in 1985 was red Vans sneakers (great for the look...lousy for marching, tho), red pants, a yellow collared shirt under a white dinner jacket, a Panama hat, and sunglasses (although the glasses were not worn if they performed late afternoon or evening)....however, there was a good deal of customization allowed by Jack Bevins, the corps director...people had various buttons on the jackets, stuff hanging from around their necks (one guy had a big cross), etc....thus, the uniform was not uniform.

    So either view the examples or shut up about it...because you're wrong. When you ignore evidence that CLEARLY refutes your claim -- to the point where you don't even view that evidence -- any credibility your argument might have goes right down the crapper.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2011
  8. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    So, they should have shot him as a spy. :D

    I'm still not sure why you believe that this is relevant to the issue of whether a uniform should be uniform, though.

    Like I said, because I have other, higher priorities. Simple as that.

    Yeow...are you sure this was a marching band and not a pimp guild? :jester:

    Really, Sam...have you had a lot of experience with people kowtowing to your imperious commands to "shut up"? :blah:
     
  9. downunder

    downunder is a Verified Fencing Expertdownunder Podium

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    Hey jerk provide evidence or go away :)

     
  10. SpiralGalaxy

    SpiralGalaxy Rookie

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    Right, like prolonging endless arguments on the Internet!
     
  11. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    It fit their image...their previous unis were red Vans, khaki pants, Panama hats and tacky red Hawaiian shirts (which, since they tended to perform earlier in the day back then, were much more comfortable than the full cadet-style tunics they wore prior to 1982)

    And actually...if you wanted a corps looking like pimps, that would be Bridgemen from Bayonne, NJ http://bridgemen.com/Photos/1978/Large/1978Photo006.jpg

    Again...a radical departure from the pre 1976 Cadet tunics.

    Both corps used a deal of comedy in their performances...which made them beloved by the fans...especially when Bridgemen won three percussion titles in a row while doing so. Both were multiple top 12 finalists.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2011
  12. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    At the very least, the would have.

    With nearly 32 THOUSAND posts???
     
  13. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    Indubitably. ;)
     
  14. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    Have YOU had a lot of experience with people kowtowing to your---

    Wait, you probably have.

    Bad example, never mind. :D
     
  15. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    So we have Inq being given several clear examples of how a uniform isn't always uniform, both by actual video/photos from me and accepted dictionary definitions from others, and he refuses to even view those examples.

    The first thing I was taught in a speech class many years ago was if you make an claim in an argument, you have to substantiate it. I have...others have...Inq has not.

    Thus, Inq's "arguments" have no validity or credibility...zero, zilch, nada, etc.

    Like the saying goes...put up or shut up....most of us have.....Inq has not.
     
  16. shlepzig

    shlepzig Podium

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    Let's not take the curmudgeonlyness of Inq to heart, as we all know he hates anything that deviates from the traditional white fencing uniform.

    As far as the semantic argument, are the uniforms uniform? Clearly not all uniforms (noun, clothing, or arrainment) are going to be the exactly the same as in absolute definition of uniform (adjective, being the same) they will come in different sizes and cuts (possibly other differences) as a matter of practicality. I think this is true of any "uniform". There are important points of uniformity and unimportant points, these will be laid out in the specification of a particular uniform in rules, regulations or other requirements.

    The classical all-white fencing uniform tolerated different shades, cuts, clasps velcro and zippers (even the odd left handed fencer). Masks were allowed to be shiny, or matte. The rules have specified in what ways the uniforms must be the same (conform to uniformity) and in what ways they may tolerate differences (ways that they may not be uniform but are still compliant to the uniform specification).

    General color of jacket and breeches was once a specified matter of uniformity (white, but not a specific white - it wasn't even always white) it no longer is. Same may be said for masks in certain venues now. We may have personal opinions on this, but the rules are the rules.

    Can we now get back to discussing important things like the Point In Line wikipedia entry?
     
  17. Mergs

    Mergs Podium

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    Et la! Touche` a droit. Ces fini. Hopefully. Probably not, but one can hope. (Apologies in advance for horrific French spelling)
     
  18. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    Probably better than my pronunciation!
     
  19. warlordkenobi

    warlordkenobi Made the Cut

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  20. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    Reminds me fo a political cartoon from the early days of Israel/PLO negotiations (Begin was the Israeli PM, as I recall...dealing with Arafat), where they'd get stuck on just this sort of idiocy. if I remember, the 'toon had Begin standing with document in hand, claiming that the word "the" in some ancient context meant...and then it tailed off (the point was made, tho)
     

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