The attack-ok what constitutes a right of way attack

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by greggall, Jan 25, 2012.

  1. greggall

    greggall Rookie

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    I'm getting conflicting interpretations from refs.
    arm moving forward-
    continuous movement forward regardless of arm position-
    movement forward even if arm is removed and replaced
    So what is the decision?
     
  2. haroldbuck

    haroldbuck Made the Cut

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    Welcome aboard!

    FWIW, I can't find right-of-way anywhere in the rule book.
     
  3. erooMynohtnA

    erooMynohtnA Podium

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    I am getting conflicting interpretations from the question.
     
  4. Beloit Fencer of Old

    Beloit Fencer of Old Rookie

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    You must be really new. Here's your answer:

    Epee: The epeeist who arrives simultaneously at the intersection, and who is to your right, has right of way...you must yield.
    Foil: Right of way convention varies by division and region, so that you must analyze the combination of footwork, arm movement, referree, participating foilist's reputation and the conviction with which he/she yells and fist-pumps after the halt vis a vis the geographic location of the event in order to determine the touch. Sometimes the lights come into play, too.
    Sabre: Who the f*ck cares.
     
  5. ladyofshalott99

    ladyofshalott99 DE Bracket

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    Epee: Irrelevant, because it itself is irrelevant

    Sabre/Foil: Whomever starts the attack first, regardless of FORWARD arm movement. Note that I'm not talking about SPEED. I could step towards you at a snail's pace, but if I *started* my attack first, by initiating the extension FIRST, and maintain the lock on that ROW by not doing anything silly like pull my arm back, stop moving for half a second, etc., then I still have RoW regardless of how quick I am moving toward you.

    One difference between Sabre/Foil: In Sabre, your attack is OVER once the front foot lands (as in a lunge). So if your foot lands before your arm/hand is finished, too bad, so sad.

    {Puts that out there, ducks behind rock as this will surely re-open the debate as to whether that is a valid ending in foil}
     
  6. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    Careful...that way lies madness...
     
  7. KidLazy

    KidLazy Rookie

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    Point, think of point.

    Myth, "right-of-way is irrelevant in Epee" is a myth.

    Are you sure... about that in foil? :rolleyes:
     
  8. bigdawg2121

    bigdawg2121 Podium

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    Attacks are like pornography, you know it when you see it and it might make you a little tingly inside. Also you should spend less time looking at it because it might make you go blind and will probably lead to malware being installed in your hard drive.
     
  9. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    Why? There IS no RoW in epee...unless you're thinking of taking a parry to block an attack...doesn't take RoW, but it removes the threat for a brief moment.
    http://www.fencing.net/forums/thread56161.html Specifically, post #35. Not really definitive (not in the rulebook like it IS for sabre), but there's guidance from Bill Oliver.
     
  10. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    Annnnddd cue the porn music *bow chika-chika wow wow....*
     
  11. ladyofshalott99

    ladyofshalott99 DE Bracket

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    Of course not. Surety is akin to over-confidence, which is a critical flaw I exploit as much as possible.
     
  12. Allen Evans

    Allen Evans Podium

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    Of course there is priority in epee....it's just that the opponent enforces it, rather than the referee.
     
  13. egillette

    egillette Made the Cut

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    To the OP,

    If you really are confused (and it is a bit confusing, especially as a beginner), try reading the last portion of referee handbook, which can be found on the FOC website (http://fencingofficials.org/index.php). That may help you find the portions of the rule book to focus on, and give you some perspective on the various things the referee may be looking for while determining what is and is not an attack. Start on pg. 35, with Right of Way in a Nutshell, and then read Bill Oliver's specific examples. Good Luck
     
    Maggie likes this.
  14. neevel

    neevel Armorer

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    It's important to understand that ROW is determined not just by what you're doing, but also by what your opponent is doing and (this is critical) the relative timing between them. A very slight change in relative timing can lead to a different ROW result in the action.
     
  15. foibles

    foibles Podium

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    It's very helpful to watch the same porn as the highest ranked refs in your area so you may disposition RoW in the same way.
     
  16. edew

    edew Podium

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    What's the other guy doing?
     
  17. touchefriend

    touchefriend Made the Cut

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    You are not the first person to notice conflicting interpretations, vague interpretations and interpretations that do not appear to follow the rulebook. Never fear, it will become as clear as mud after you get some more experience.
     
  18. eac

    eac Rookie

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    The referees at world cups call it a certain way each year, more or less, which is pretty much the same as it was last year but might be a bit different than two years ago.

    The referees at national tournaments try (with varying degrees of effort and success) to call it the same way as they heard (or occasionally saw) it called most recently at world cups.

    The referees at regional tournaments try (with varying degrees of effort and success) to call it the same way as they heard (or occasionally saw) it called most recently at national tournaments.

    The referees at local tournaments try (with varying degrees of effort and success) to call it the same way as they heard (or occasionally saw) it called most recently at regional tournaments.

    The resulting telephone effect, combined with the fact that apparently nobody watches FIEvideo, means that local tournament referees, which are likely the ones you're worrying about, may have very strange ideas about how to call it, and those ideas may vary widely from ref to ref even in the same locale. But, be aware that FIEvideo is the ultimate source of truth.
     
  19. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    Or, they call it as it was called in the halcyon days of their youths, lo these many decades ago, and don't try to tell them otherwise!

    Unless it comes from Christian Bauer and friends, in which case it will soon be disavowed...
     
  20. edew

    edew Podium

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    And like advices on here, mostly free at 240dpi.
     

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