Test for foil. The absence of the white light.

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by Spenzario, Oct 22, 2018.

  1. Spenzario

    Spenzario Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    2
    I just heard about the test of not using the white (non-valid) light. What is your opinion about that?
     
  2. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2001
    Messages:
    16,361
    Likes Received:
    587
    Uhhhh...what? Details are important, and you' ve provided none.
     
  3. Mergs

    Mergs Podium

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2000
    Messages:
    3,559
    Likes Received:
    237
    You think infighting is bad NOW! Just wait.
     
  4. ktinoue3

    ktinoue3 DE Bracket

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2014
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    16
    Basically white lights won't stop the clock and white light is end of action and loss of right of way. if person on the right has right of way gets a white light and the other fencer on the left hits on target it would be called attack no, attack touch point to my left.

    I don't know how this would be implemented on the machines. These are just the few details I heard.
     
    tbryan likes this.
  5. ktinoue3

    ktinoue3 DE Bracket

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2014
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    16
    They are also testing allowing fleche in Saber again. But if you straight miss (not due to opponent parrying) then yellow card for crossing the feet.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
    tbryan likes this.
  6. jkormann

    jkormann Podium

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    3,016
    Likes Received:
    205
    Who's proposing it.
     
  7. ktinoue3

    ktinoue3 DE Bracket

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2014
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    16
    I was told that this was being tested in Turkey. There was an FIE tournament there this last weekend so I assume the FIE.
     
  8. Spenzario

    Spenzario Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    2
    It was tested in Antalya in Turkey with women's foil, satelite tournament.
    Also will be tested the crossing pass in sabre in combination with the fleche. I think that the fleche may end again in a crossing pass.
    For foil: I believe that this is for the spectator. Maybe it will bring some changes in the execution of the attack.
     
  9. keropie

    keropie Podium

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,466
    Likes Received:
    172
    I'm not a huge fan of the saber idea, in that it just adds another exception to a case to watch for. Honestly, they should probably just allow crossing the feet again and be done with it.

    The foil idea is just plain stupid. Infighting/squirmy defense/ducking/tiny lames/weird front arm positions/etc. are already annoying, and if you lose a touch when you make an attack that they defend with their front arm it's so much worse. So of course then front arm will be target (anyone else remember this idea? The lame sleeve with a separation so that it only registers when your arm touches your lame?) to avoid that version of defense, plus whatever other rules they need to add to 'fix' the no off target in foil. Like attacking isn't bad enough right now.

    How to fix foil? Keep the same concepts (with minor adjustments as necessary) to interpretation of ROW, keep it tight, and put the debounce timing back to something reasonable (I suggest something like 6-8ms) so that attacks consistently land, ducking and squirming isn't successful, and let people fence foil. I'd also probably lengthen the blocking time slightly, but not by a ton. It certainly doesn't need to go all the way back to 750ms, or 1.5s, but maybe 500ms?
     
    tbryan and Spenzario like this.
  10. ktinoue3

    ktinoue3 DE Bracket

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2014
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    16
    My understanding is they do these tests all the time and a lot of the time nothing comes of them. Until it ends up before the FIE Board or whoever decides these things I wouldn't waste time worrying about it.
     
  11. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Messages:
    36,818
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    Stop it, FIE. Just stop it. Leave the friggin' rules alone.
     
    InFerrumVeritas and Nakita like this.
  12. Nakita

    Nakita Made the Cut

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    9
    I thought if the FEncer on the right, Attacking, gets an off target, no matter about anything after that. The action stops.
    The fencer on the Left does not win the touch?
     
  13. Allen Evans

    Allen Evans Podium

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2003
    Messages:
    4,851
    Likes Received:
    906
    The last rule change "to help the spectators" that made any sense was changing the scoring system to count touches "for" the fencer rather than "against".
     
  14. Goldgar

    Goldgar Podium

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Messages:
    2,653
    Likes Received:
    178
    What you describe is the way the rules currently work (and have worked for all modern time). This is a proposed change to the rules.
     
    Nakita likes this.
  15. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2001
    Messages:
    16,361
    Likes Received:
    587
    The Russian Box of Death would like a word with you.
     
  16. ktinoue3

    ktinoue3 DE Bracket

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2014
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    16
    I didn't say they all went away
     
  17. jkormann

    jkormann Podium

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    3,016
    Likes Received:
    205
    What's next, one point for off-target and two for on?
    If the purpose is to simplify it for the NFL-crowd, ignoring a valid (non-scoring) touch will actually be more confusing. I can see some friends saying, "But they hit, something should happen."
    Perhaps a hit on-target has priority against an off-target, within the lockout time would be easier to explain. And when there's two on-target lights, you get into RoW.
    Put the energy into explaining the game, not changing it.
     
  18. jdude97

    jdude97 Podium

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,904
    Likes Received:
    226
    So is the proposal they're testing getting rid of off-target lights like in saber or just not giving them right-of-way over an on-target hit?
     
  19. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Messages:
    36,818
    Likes Received:
    1,331
  20. Zebra

    Zebra Podium

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2013
    Messages:
    1,031
    Likes Received:
    289
    I think that's an Olympic Games-specific logo.
     

Share This Page