Soft-covered Chest Protectors for SN & Beyond

Discussion in 'Armory - Q&A' started by Mac A. Bee, Apr 14, 2018.

  1. Blackwood

    Blackwood DE Bracket

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    Which does beg the question of how much adding a thin layer of padding is going to help if a jacket and plastron don't do the job.
     
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  2. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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  3. Zebra

    Zebra Podium

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    That sounds good as long as you plan to sew the plastron back together after adding the hard guard, or maybe use buttons or snaps to reconnect the layers (though the latter would be counterproductive, as they'd tend to concentrate impacts. Another issue with going between the layers is that the straps would get in the way if you want to make the protector removable: you'd have to put the opening in the top
    I think I'm going to try sewing a pocket onto the plastron. That way, it will keep the protector just where I want it (so I can make it smaller) and it will be easy to put in and take out without taking off my plastron or jacket.
     
  4. Zebra

    Zebra Podium

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    Any suggestions about where to find a suitable piece of plastic short of buying and cutting up a hard guard?
    And maybe some thin foam to increase its impact absorption?
     
  5. Goldgar

    Goldgar Podium

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    "In my day we parried with our swords."
    - Otto von Bismarck
     
  6. Bellicose Patriot

    Bellicose Patriot Made the Cut

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    Aside from all of the economic and technical issues associated with this change, here is an additional tidbit to consider…this should be considered in the next election …that is… the completely unprofessional way that this information was released…the results of the executive committee were first covertly divulged to the suppliers…(I guess so that they could reduce current inventory and get adequate new supplies in place)…however this was done before notification of anyone on any technical committee or anyone else…(who were involved in the decision negotiating process) and some who had recommended longer implementation dates to accommodate the general membership…(backing up the argument that they are mostly concerned with the effect only on it’s effect on elite fencers… who, by the way, are in full compliance with this change because of previous FIE compliance, and are therefore unaffected by this change)…although as reprehensible as this is…it is still better than the covert way that the general membership was informed on the “back-strap issue” (but that’s a topic for another day)

    The first public notification was posted on facebook by a major supplier containing a letter on behalf of the Rules Committee and Referees Commission, dated April 13th 2018, one day after the decision date on April 12th…before any members of our SEMI or any Armorer Technicians were informed of the Executive Committee’s decision and implementation dates (the person’s the general membership normally seeks answers from)…although a very admirable business decision…however one must question where the executive committee’s priorities lie and who’s interests they consider in decision making…(the term “one trick pony” comes to mind)
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  7. Privateer

    Privateer Podium

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    hasnt the FIE rule been in the works for years? If manufacturers didn't respond to the impending rule... they seemed to respond pretty well when the whole 'no holes' in gloves kind of sort of happened.
     
  8. Bellicose Patriot

    Bellicose Patriot Made the Cut

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    Hole in gloves was a safety issue…this is a scoring (unfair advantage issue)…not questioning the validity of the decision…just the information distribution and hoping that the onus doesn’t wind up at the control tables
     
  9. Bellicose Patriot

    Bellicose Patriot Made the Cut

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  10. Bellicose Patriot

    Bellicose Patriot Made the Cut

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    Hole in gloves was a safety issue…this is a scoring (unfair advantage issue)…not questioning the validity of the decision…just the information distribution and hoping that the onus doesn’t wind up at the control tables
     
  11. Bellicose Patriot

    Bellicose Patriot Made the Cut

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    Hole in gloves was a safety issue…this is a scoring (unfair advantage issue)…not questioning the validity of the decision…just the information distribution and hoping that the onus doesn’t wind up at the control tables
     
  12. Privateer

    Privateer Podium

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    i see. your post made it sound like there was some collusion between either the FIE, USFencing, and LP.

    there's no question our federation lacks in the communication department.
     
  13. Bellicose Patriot

    Bellicose Patriot Made the Cut

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    no one said it was
    Never said it was any specific distributer of this I am absolutely certain (interesting that you named LP) …I never implied that the FIE or anyone else as being part of a conspiracy … just remarking on the order of precedence of dissemination of information of the decision and the lack of professionalism on the part of the Executive Board who seem to value economic issues over technical information…
     
  14. Privateer

    Privateer Podium

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    I didn't realize someone other than LP had the new chest plate.
    not trying to start a fight.
     
  15. Strytllr

    Strytllr DE Bracket

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    I think my biggest complaint about this rule is that mixed signals that I've been getting over the years about the desire for the flick attack. First, it was encouraged by reducing the contact time. Then it was discouraged by increasing the contact time. Now it's encouraged again by adding a soft layer in order to allow them "to stick".
    In my humble opinion, if you want your touch to land better on a chest protector, then hit them more squarely and quit flicking around. heh.
     
  16. Bellicose Patriot

    Bellicose Patriot Made the Cut

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    The bold lettering was a hint…not a reaction …From what I have been able to ascertain…there seems to be two major sources…in the US…Absolute…available in small, medium, and large (because of a larger arm hole)…and everyone else…supplied by the New Zealand company QP Sport…one source said that they just make the covers and that they can be attached over other existing mfg’s hard plastic items…example Allstar…as well as their own which are available in specific bra sizes…another comment is that they do not transpose to American sizes and care direct measurements taken before ordering…the more people who are informed…the easier the transition will be…since the deadlines seem to be very, very short in duration…
     
  17. AStoddard

    AStoddard Rookie

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    I have a completely different understanding and recollection than you.

    Do you have any reference for there ever being decrease in contact time? (Not the lock out time, the contact time?). I don't believe there has ever been any technical change that _intentionally_ encouraged the flick. It was always a latent possibility in the foil technical specs (mostly because a foil tip by design in breaking the circuit through the tip has an infinitesimal travel - incidentally this is what enables a foil circuit to re-use the same three wire infrastructure as the epee and still distinguish on and off target).

    The increased contact time was an attempt to deliberately reduce the flick. But the problem is that now some valid straight thrusts, not flicks, will bounce off a hard surface and don't have sufficient contact time to register. So the soft layer is an attempt to fix the unintended consequence of the contact time increase.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
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  18. neevel

    neevel Armorer

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    The pre-2005 specs had a fairly broad range for the minimum 'dwell-time' needed to register a touch, with 1 ms being the minimum of the range (I don't recall off the top of my head what the maximum was). This was a leftover from back when the specs were originally formulated for relay-based machines, which could not be calibrated with much precision (or be counted on to remain calibrated). As solid state apparatus came in which allowed the contact time to be set precisely, manufacturers began setting it to the minimum of the allowed range, which then allowed fencers to land flicks reliably regardless of the scoring apparatus used. So there was never any explicit rule change made to allow flicks to happen, but rather a technological change which left the un-updated rules behind.
     
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  19. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    So.....does anyone have a source for covers for next season????


    And how does this rule apply for those who use the hubcaps?
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2018
  20. InFerrumVeritas

    InFerrumVeritas DE Bracket

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    Hubcaps have to be covered by the material, have to be worn beneath the plastron.
     

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