So what should it say?

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by Christopher J Umbs, Jun 28, 2005.

  1. Christopher J Umbs

    Christopher J Umbs Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2000
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    17
    Hi all,

    Saw the thread about M. Lurz's page. Not my school/organization and I don't agree with it.

    I am starting to work on my own site though. Since I'll have to have at least a small bit about sport fencing on it... what would y'all like to see? What wouldn't be insulting? Just on first thought, I'd likely have something like this:

    "Sport Fencing is a pure sport. The participants of its highest levels are literally Olympic level athletes and the sport demands speed, timing and a keen sense of distance. Sport fencing is the skill of winning sport fencing tournaments. That is what the style is specialized for and if a particular tactic lacks martial viability but is effective rules wise, a good sport fencer will fence to the rules. Top competitive fencers say that trying to fence as if the blades were sharp is counterproductive to success in the sport."
     
  2. veeco

    veeco Podium

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    3,186
    Likes Received:
    208
    Why do you need to have something about olympic fencing?

    I don't think I like the terms "sport fencing". I feel it diminishes the fact that olympic fencing is as much a mental game as an athletic one.
     
  3. keith

    keith Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,092
    Likes Received:
    262
    I agree with veeco, why does classical fencing have to define itself in opposition to sport fencing?

    I also find the 'as if they were sharp' obsession slightly creapy, but thats just me.
     
  4. Mr Epee

    Mr Epee Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2004
    Messages:
    4,494
    Likes Received:
    700
    How about this?
    btw... it's called fencing.
     
  5. Christopher J Umbs

    Christopher J Umbs Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2000
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    17
    I need to say it, because the name of my school is the Umbs School of Fence and I don't teach sport fencing. I can either put a small explanation in or have to correct people on the phone repeatedly.
     
  6. Mr Epee

    Mr Epee Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2004
    Messages:
    4,494
    Likes Received:
    700
    People are smarter than you give credit - they'll figure it out.

    And you don't know very much about business, if you think that you can avoid uninformed phone calls with little blurb on your site.
     
  7. veeco

    veeco Podium

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    3,186
    Likes Received:
    208
    So what? It's still fencing, yes? People who will call you are interested in fencing. Whether they are interested in your specific form of fencing or not is not something you can decide for them. Let them come, try it out, and if they like what you're doing with them, they will come back. If not, then they will try somewhere else.

    Another potential problem would be that you might attract olympic fencing style fencers who know they are looking for an olympic fencing club. There might be very few of them as most of them know where to look (the USFA's website, for instance) and those who do find your site will probably not need your blurb about olympic fencing to find out what you're doing is not what they are looking for.
     
  8. Christopher J Umbs

    Christopher J Umbs Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2000
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    17
    Fine by me... I don't feel a huge need to mention sport fencing. I just have the feeling that if I don't, there's going to be some stupid thread here saying that I'm claiming to teach USFA or the like.
     
  9. veeco

    veeco Podium

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    3,186
    Likes Received:
    208
    I'll be sure to start that thread when the opportunity presents itself ;-)
     
    Mr Epee likes this.
  10. Feraud

    Feraud Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    23
    Don’t call modern fencing “sport fencing”
    That implies that fencing before the modern era wasn’t a sport, which it was.
    There was “sport fencing” in the 17-19c as well.
    Fencing is and has always been a sport. Using the term “sport” is redundant, like saying “sport swimming”

    Referring to modern fencing as “Olympic fencing” is also not correct.
    That implies that fencing in the Olympics is held under different rules or otherwise distinguished from the practice of the modern sport, or that fencing is only competed at in the Olympics. In the practice of the sport there’s no difference between “fencing” and “Olympic fencing”

    Either of the above definitions is misleading to the general public.

    If you want to explain a distinction between fencing styles, just call modern fencing what it is: “Modern Fencing”
     
    Mr Epee likes this.
  11. Thorin

    Thorin Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2003
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    5
    If calling modern competitive fencing "sport fencing" is the easiest way to reduce confusion about what you do at your club then just do it. No need to nitpick about symantics here.
     
  12. kalivor

    kalivor Podium

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,676
    Likes Received:
    129
    But nitpicking about semantics is what we do best! :mutant:
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2005
  13. KShan5[PrFC]

    KShan5[PrFC] Podium

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Messages:
    2,655
    Likes Received:
    178
    Welcome to fencing.net
     
  14. mrbiggs

    mrbiggs Podium

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    7,837
    Likes Received:
    477
    That's perfectly fine. Don't worry about it.
     
  15. jBirch

    jBirch Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    3,282
    Likes Received:
    248
    Modern Sport Style is the sportif expression of classical fencing and has evolved unique techniques and tactics to exploit the exact same rules of fencing that the Umbs school teaches. It is generally fenced on longer pistes in a more movement oriented style then the technically oriented classical style we teach. It is the style fenced at the Olympic Games and uses an electical apparatus to determine the materiality of the touch, as opposed to the Judge and Jury system of adjudicating an assault that we teach. As such, it has unique intricacies that make fencing it markedly different from fencing in the Classical Style.

    Hope this helps.

    James.
     
  16. achilleus

    achilleus Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
    Messages:
    3,379
    Likes Received:
    264

    I see two ways to go:

    1) Present your club and your fencing accurately, and don't even mention the variations in fencing.

    For example, check out this.

    They tell what they are, what they do, and it leaves no room for doubt.

    or:

    2) Have a section on your site titled, 'my kung fu is better than your kung fu.'

    Personally, having read your well thought out posts, I reccommend option 1.
     
  17. striker

    striker Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2004
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    16

    Chris, what weapons do you teach in your Salle? Is it only Rapier and
    Historical Fencing weapons or do you teach Classical Foil, Epee, and
    Saber also ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2005
  18. swordsen

    swordsen Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Messages:
    1,369
    Likes Received:
    26
    I can see the benefit of explaining the difference becasue it will keep peope interested in sport fencing (and I have no problem with that term or Olympic fencing) from coming in and getting upset when they aren't being offered what they thought they were after.
    Of course no matter how well you explain it someone will still get upset about it.
     
  19. Epeecurean

    Epeecurean Rookie

    Joined:
    May 29, 2003
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    39
    'Fencing' to the public means Olympic fencing. Since you are teaching fencing as a martial art and not a sport, perhaps you could re-dub your school as "The Umbs School of Swordsmanship".
     
  20. alexia

    alexia Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    3
    I was going to recommend this page at Salle Green (http://www.sallegreen.com/comparison.html) as a good reference point for a club which offers both classical and modern, but they seem to be having DNS issues ...

    Google the above URL and see if you can get the cached page. It's a nice example of a "tolerant" club.
     

Share This Page