Senior Team National Championship History

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by Ancientepee, Sep 6, 2018.

  1. Ancientepee

    Ancientepee Podium

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    The USFA has a web page on which they list the Division I men’s and women’s national champions.
    https://www.usafencing.org/past-national-champions

    However, it shows the names of at least two people who did not win the national championship that they’re indicating. While it shows the results for the outdoor events which were held from 1920 to 1941 but have since been discontinued, it does not list two other individual national championships which have also been discontinued: single sticks (1900-1901) and 3-weapon individual (1907-1948). There’s also no information at all about who won national championships in the team events which have been held since 1906.

    I did some research and now have names for all of the individual national champions. But I’ve hit a brick wall researching the team champions. I could not find information on the USFA web site or in past issues of American Fencing magazine for 29 of the teams that won championships. In some cases, I was missing just the names of the team members but in others I could not find even the name of the team that won. Also, sometimes I think I have the names of only the fencers who fenced in the gold medal match and so am missing the names of subs.

    After searching newspaper archives and contacting some of the fencers who might have competed on the missing teams and Andy Shaw, I’ve reduced the list to 7 teams. One of them was in 1979 and the remaining six are 1997 or later. So, I’m posting the list of missing teams here in the hope that someone can supply the missing information through personal knowledge or sound research. I am NOT interested in hearing from people who say that such-and-such a team was very strong then and so MUST have won the championships or that such-and-such a fencer MUST have been on that championship team. Injuries, outside obligations, etc., have sunk “obvious” national champions. If you’re going to supply name(s), please also supply what your source of information is.

    Team members unknown
    1979 Women's Foil Team – Salle Csiszar
    1997 Women's Epee Team - Unknown
    Women's Foil Team - Rochester
    1998 Women's Foil Team - Rochester
    2004 Men's Foil Team - Unknown
    Women's Epee Team - Unknown
    2010 Women's Sabre Team – Manhattan FC

    I also believe that the following team events were not contested because too few teams entered the event.

    Team event not contested
    2011 Women’s Foil Team
    2012 Men's Foil Team
    Women's Foil Team
    2014 Men's Foil Team
    Women's Foil Team
    Women's Sabre Team
    2015 Men's Foil Team
    Women's Foil Team
    Women's Sabre Team
    2016 Women's Foil Team
    Women's Sabre Team
    2017 Women's Foil Team
    Women's Sabre Team
    2018 Women's Epee Team
    Women's Sabre Team

    Finally, I’m attaching a report by year of what I have so far in case anyone wants to see if it contains any missing/incorrect information.
     

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  2. mfp

    mfp Podium

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  3. mfp

    mfp Podium

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  4. Joe biebel

    Joe biebel Podium

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    George, Regarding the 1976 men's foil team, the missing member is Pedro Barcelo.
     
  5. mfp

    mfp Podium

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  6. Ancientepee

    Ancientepee Podium

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    Now you know why this has been such a "challenge" to put together. Here's the results from the July 1979 issue of American Fencing: They say that Salle Csiszar won and SJSU took third.

    upload_2018-9-6_16-46-45.png

    I favored the AF results because they included actual results with match scores. I contacted one of the possible Csiszar fencers back on August 19 and sent a follow-up email on Sept 1. Hopefully some other piece of evidence will show up or I'll get either a confirmation or correction from one of the 1979 WF fencers.

    The good news is that the men's foil results in the NYT agree exactly with those in AF.

    By the way, thanks for finding the other five team champions.
     
  7. Ancientepee

    Ancientepee Podium

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    Thanks for all those who've helped. I now have a club name for all of the team championships and I have at least three team members for all except the 2010 Women's Sabre Team of the Manhattan Fencing Center. A member of the 1979 Salle Csiszar WFT confirmed that they did win that year and gave me the names of the team members. Joe Biebel gave me the name of their sub in 1976 and I found a few more subs from other sources. If anyone else knows a missing sub's name, let me know.
     

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  8. mfp

    mfp Podium

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  9. Ancientepee

    Ancientepee Podium

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  10. Ancientepee

    Ancientepee Podium

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    Manhattan Fencing Center tells me that the team was Tiki Kastor, Julia Klepner, Samantha Roberts, Dagmara Wozniak. So here's what I have as a complete list of the Division I individual and team champions. Let me know if you have any additions/corrections, especially missing names of substitutes in the team events and birth/death dates/places for any of the fencers.

    Thanks to all those who helped me compile this information.
     

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  11. Ancientepee

    Ancientepee Podium

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    Status Report: Research has been continuing on this. Misspelled names or missing middle initials/names are being corrected. But most important are the dates/places of birth/death. A date of birth (or in one case just a year of birth) has been found for all 111 fencers who won more than five national championships and for all fencers who won national championships before 1902. But we're still missing birth dates for 129 of the 810 national champions. Ironically, many of them won their championship after 1960 but are no longer members of the USFA and are too young to show up on census records (1940 is the last one that's been made public) or on city registries.

    I'm attaching two files. One contains the 129 fencers for whom we're missing birth dates with the years that they won their first and last national championship. The other is the report of all fencing senior national champions with what we currently have for their date and place of birth and death. If anyone would like to help this project and can find any missing or incorrect information, please pass that information on to me. Best would be to send it in a private message so that this thread does not become too long.
     

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  12. Ancientepee

    Ancientepee Podium

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