Recording Cards

Discussion in 'Rules and Referee Questions' started by TheBeluga, Jul 16, 2017 at 5:05 PM.

  1. TheBeluga

    TheBeluga Rookie

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    Does a referee have to record down that a fencer was given lets say a red card so that its valid?
     
  2. Emerald101

    Emerald101 Rookie

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    Yes. The most likely application is after a red card is awarded for second group one infraction. If the fencer appeals and the first card was not recorded on the scoresheet (or the box), then it isn't valid and the second card is treated as if there were no first card, which is to say that it becomes a yellow card.
     
  3. Goldgar

    Goldgar Podium

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    Yes. See t.114.4. Note that a referee may be using a temporary "scratch score sheet" during a bout, for convenience, and recording the card there still counts.
     
  4. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    Yes...otherwise a fencer can contest it...it needs to be documented.
     
  5. tbryan

    tbryan Podium

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    t.114
    4.
    All warnings (Yellow Cards), penalty touches (Red Cards) and exclusions (Black Cards) must be noted on the scoresheet of the bout, the pool or the match, together with the group to which they belong.

    In practice, this type of thing comes up when it's a long match or a match with long delays for faulty equipment or something. Late in the bout, one of the fencers receives a Group I penalty. When the fencers start arguing about whether it should be a red card because the fencer did/didn't already have a penalty in that bout, you'll really want a written record of all penalties. :)

    FYI - I just searched the rulebook for scoresheet. There were only about a dozen matches.
     
  6. Arslan

    Arslan Rookie

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    Yes , Referee should keep it...I thought it might be interesting to see what had happened record a referee during a game.
     
  7. TheBeluga

    TheBeluga Rookie

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  8. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee Podium

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    For a Black Card, record the time, as well as what was said and done by everyone. You'll need this to complete the post-bout report.
     
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  9. Zebra

    Zebra DE Bracket

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    Don't record anything on the scoresheet other than the name of the individual who was black-carded and perhaps the time. Use a separate sheet of paper to make any additional notes (like names of witnesses, specifics of what was said and done, and what you did in response), because you don't want those raw notes to become part of the official record (which they would if they're on the scoresheet).

    Then, after the individual who got the black card is removed and you have taken some time to gather yourself, and after you've had any necessary discussions with other referees or with the head referee and BC, you can fill out the black card report based on the notes you wrote on that separate sheet. You have to make sure your account of the incident is clear and accurate, and it includes only the information necessary for higher authorities to decide on any subsequent action. Don't be afraid to have another ref help you with completing the report, especially if it's the first time you've had to show a black card. It can be scary.

    Keep your notes after you complete the black card form so you can keep your story straight if you get contacted by USFA or other authorities after you submit the report.
     
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  10. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee Podium

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    Are you stating Ref Commission guidance? Contemporaneous notes are the best official record (lawyers please chime in), which I've used to complete subsequent reports. In the one instance when a report wasn't immediately requested, I obtained a copy of my annotated score sheet to accurately report.
     

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