Pro French Grip

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by dareox, May 8, 2019.

  1. dareox

    dareox Rookie

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    Hi. Do you know which french grips are the most popular in pro fencing? Which grips are used by best fencers like Minobe ? I just saw few Harut grips and I'm just curious which models/brands are the best and most common in turnaments like World Cup
     
  2. K O'N

    K O'N Podium

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    Grumier used the Prieur wood grip. I'm pretty sure from pictures that Jung and Minobe use PBT aluminum core grips.

    Harut has a bunch of pictures of fencers on their page, but they don't have any explicit endorsements, like "I used the Harut Super in the World Cup, it was great" or anything like that. I don't know if any of those fencers use Harut grips. They show Fernandez, and I'm pretty sure he used a PBT grip.

    I'd love it if someone could walk around a WC and take pictures of every french grip they see. That would be great.
     
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  3. DangerMouse

    DangerMouse Podium

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    Fixed that for you :)

    I'd love to have a collection of grip and cant pictures for a bunch of high level fencers.
     
  4. dareox

    dareox Rookie

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    So Harut could be just good marketing or best fencers are more conservative and use same grips for years?
     
  5. DangerMouse

    DangerMouse Podium

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    Even when some great new technology enters the fencing world, it takes a long time before you start to see it at the top levels. These fencers train for years with the same equipment and anything that changes how something feels requires some time to get used to. That time can have a negative effect on a top fencer's results for that year and may not have any significant benefits to them after that. So it takes years before the low level fencers who try the new grips, blades, etc. make it to the high level. So, there is a significant lag between something like Harut entering the market and the presence of it at high level tournaments.
     
  6. K O'N

    K O'N Podium

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    I think, also, that Harut is catering to a specific market. The grips feel really nice, very nice colorful covers, and most of them have a lot of shape to them. I think this appeals to mid-level fencers a lot, a bent grip is easier to hold, and they feel like good quality grips when compared to generic plastic $5 grips.

    But high level fencers seem to use very straight grips:

    https://i.imgur.com/oPRU9Rj.png

    https://i.imgur.com/UKjMYm5.png

    https://i.imgur.com/62ptJCK.png

    https://i.imgur.com/9wKXe7O.png

    They all seem to have a little bit of cant, but only Grumier's seems to have any bend to the grip itself.

    And they seem to value solid aluminum cores more than mid-level recreational fencers do. Which makes sense, Minobe or Fernandez are putting a lot more stress on a grip than the average Div II fencer, when they make a beat or a parry, and for the most part (Grumier excepted, I guess) they don't seem to value light weight nearly as much as recreational fencers do.

    Which is not to say that Harut are not good grips, or that you shouldn't use a bent grip. I use a bent grip. And maybe it is just tradition and top fencers being slow to catch on to new stuff, I don't know. But I bet it has a lot to do with the stiffness and mass of a solid aluminum grip.
     
  7. DangerMouse

    DangerMouse Podium

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    I agree, except that I would not call those grips "very straight". From that picture, Minobe uses a Schermasport grip. Those have a Z bend to them that makes them look straighter than they are. Grumier's grip has what looks to be the maximum legal bend to it, which is a pretty significant bend as well. You can see at the end of this video when Jung drops his weapon, that it has a pretty significant cant to it. From the way that it looks really straight while he is fencing, I think he puts the bend an inch or two back on the grip in a sharp dogleg.
     
  8. dareox

    dareox Rookie

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    So Carbon fibre should be stiff like aluminium and be little bit lighter?
     
  9. K O'N

    K O'N Podium

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    The two best screenshots I can get are:

    https://i.imgur.com/tm9xEMl.png

    https://i.imgur.com/3wohgHJ.png

    It does seem to have some cant to it, but I don't see a sharp bend. The damn thing was behind the red progress bar in they youtube video part of the time, though.

    The Schermasport grip has some shape to it:

    https://www.negrini.com/en/schermasport-french-grip

    But when you're comparing it with the very bent Harut it seems pretty subtle.

    Yes. A carbon grip should be very stiff, and a lot lighter.
     
  10. DangerMouse

    DangerMouse Podium

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    Compared to some of the Harut, the Schermasport is pretty subtle. I think most of these grips are subtle compared to the Harut Corona or System Pistol . The other Harut grips are about the same level of curve as the Schermasport or PbT, so it depends on what people mean when referring to Harut grips.

    Per usual, I think we really agree on this and we're just sussing out the fine differentiation between what constitutes a significant bend.
     
  11. K O'N

    K O'N Podium

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    Yeah. Honestly I wouldn't be shocked if a WC fencer were using one of their straight carbon grips.

    :)

    I do hope Gav can get some pictures of the epees in Paris. It's kind of amazing no one has done an instagram spread on top fencers' epees, I think.
     
  12. DangerMouse

    DangerMouse Podium

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    I'd love that too. We always hear people making claims about which grips support what type of actions, and my experience indicates that some things are easier or harder with different grips, but it would be really nice to have some data from high level fencers even if it's a small sample size.
     
  13. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    Sigh. Epeeists.
     
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  14. dareox

    dareox Rookie

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    Someone using harut system pistol or corona?? What you think about them, any difference ? They look very similar
     
  15. jkormann

    jkormann Podium

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    For once, I agree.
     
  16. wwittman

    wwittman DE Bracket

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    I can’t wait to hear what pommels the pros are using.
     
  17. piste off

    piste off Podium

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    Are you interested in replicating what they use to mirror them as a fan (e.g. like using the same model guitar as your idol), or because you are looking for a performance gain and assume they know what they are doing or that what they are doing must be right for you?

    BTW, Harut grips are great... but not a lot of high-level fencers use them. This is a function of awareness (they don't know about them) as well as a fundamental belief that metal rather than wood is preferred (the lone exception is the Prieur grip, which was a staple of the top french fencers previously - though the current ones also use metal). Harut just introduced a metal grip (Barracuda) that is pretty nice, based on the Grand Prix model that is awesome (if you opt for the wood version, get it in Teak as it is much stronger).

    You asked about Minobe... I think he is using Cartel (which is no longer). A lot of top fencers liked that one and I have to agree it was great. But you can't get them easily anymore. Closest you can get might be the Karma aluminum.
     
  18. DangerMouse

    DangerMouse Podium

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    Cartel became Planete Escrime. It looks like they may have the same grips. http://www.planeteescrime.com/en/59-pieces-detachees-et-accessoires?page=3
     
  19. dareox

    dareox Rookie

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    I don't want to copy, I just looking for inspiration.
     
  20. piste off

    piste off Podium

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    Ok. Then to cut through the crap, go for a Carmimari grip and two piece pommel or Cartel (Planet Escrime) with a Prieur pommel. You'll be using tried and true combos that the "pros" use (actually, the Prieur pommel is more old school, but damn it fits a ton of combinations great). Other than that your choices are unlimited and your head will spin. And don't do what I do, change grips every two weeks.
     

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