PIL or no?

Discussion in 'Rules and Referee Questions' started by Alex Aj Jones, Nov 20, 2015.

  1. Alex Aj Jones

    Alex Aj Jones Rookie

    Nov 14, 2013
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    I was watching a sabre poule bout at a recent tournament. The phrase went as so..

    FOL attacked and parried by FOR

    FOR doesn't riposte (did nothing)

    FOL sticks arm out (not intending to PIL)

    FOR lunges after arm is already extended

    Both lights

    Point given to FOR as attack, parry, no riposte, attack is touche.

    This happened 3 times in that one bout.

    Is this call correct? How do you differentiate from a PIL and an attack with the point.


  2. jdude97

    jdude97 Podium

    Apr 10, 2013
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    Looking through forum to see if there were any old unanswered questions. I'll take my best shot at this one.
    To answer your last question: PIL cannot be established in the opponent is attacking but otherwise can be established. AFAIK it can be established (technically although possibly not practically) at any distance, whether 1m or 10m away. If you are attacking, I see no reason why you could not stop advancing and establish point in line. If you have point in line, then you may be able to start attacking (depending what your opponent does), but since attacks and PIL are separate things, you necessarily have to no longer have PIL to attack. You can advance, retreat, and even lunge with PIL, but all those actions are simply PIL, not attacks. Really this is a technical quibble since a fencer who attacks with the point and a fencer with PIL both have right of way.

    Judging from how you wrote out the scenario, I'd call it PIL FOL, attack FOR, PIL has priority over simple attack so touch left. Fencer's intent is irrelevant since the ref never knows a fencer's intent (although they do often try to guess in RoW weapons). Per my first answer, if both fencers are just standing there doing nothing, then either fencer can start attacking or establish PIL -- sounds like that's what FOL did.

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