Olympic Rules

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by DHCJr, Aug 8, 2011.

  1. DHCJr

    DHCJr Armorer

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    Each year the Orange Coast Division has a work party to go over every piece of piste equipment and Dan comes to it. It is always interesting to hear the story of the FIE.

    This time he told me about some rules that were at Bejing and will be at London. The first one shocked me.

    1) For Foil/Sabre only 2-prong connectors are allowed.

    2) Only White or Clear cords are allowed for both mask cords and body cords.

    Dan was saying that the latter will soon be enforced at all FIE competitions.
     
  2. oiuyt

    oiuyt Podium

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    The latter is already in the FIE rules for mask cords (foil and sabre) and was enforced at at least one event I attended last season, resulting in quite a number of sales of sabre mask cords for the on-site vendor.

    -B
     
  3. Peach

    Peach Podium

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    What? Do you think that will be enforced at Veteran Worlds? (Getting out credit card and glaring at it until it submits).
     
  4. rudd

    rudd Podium

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    No 1 is a bit of a surprise. Any reason why?
     
  5. Craig

    Craig Administrator Staff Member

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    Are you sure you are quoting this correctly? I have not seen anything about this in any of the FIE letters over the past couple of years and that's where they put any rule changes/enforcement changes.
     
  6. LeonPaulUSA

    LeonPaulUSA Made the Cut

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    I had heard that they tried to ban the bayonet system at the Beijing Olympics, but I'm not sure that they got away with doing that as the Rules (m.29.3.a) are clear on that issue. The concern was that other types of connectors have higher resistance, which causes problems with the wireless scoring system. I see no basis for this, because with some brands of 2 pin body cords the pins do not fit tightly in the socket causing high resistance. Further, because of modifications to the mount and the increased spring strength, I have seen no problems with the latest LP bayonet system and very few with our original bayonet system.

    The logic behind requiring a specific color for mask cords is so that the mask cord is camouflaged against the lame. A white mask cord against a gold colored light weight lame stands out like a sore thumb. A white mask cord is less conspicuous against a stainless steel lame'. Our mask cords are clear with copper wire inside, so that they are less conspicuous against our gold colored lightweight lame'. I hope that armorers will understand the intent of the rule and will not fail our mask cords at equipment control, because the rule states that specific colors must be used.

    There's my 2 cents...............Bill
     
  7. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    I understand the white or clear for mask cords....it's a TV thing....but what's the rationale for the body cord??? They're inside the jacket for the most part....
     
  8. LeonPaulUSA

    LeonPaulUSA Made the Cut

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    The OP is the first I've heard about body cords being included. I had understood that mask cords must be white or silver.
     
  9. edew

    edew Podium

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    The only rationale could be with the wireless issue. It still might not make sense, but that's the rationale that could possibly make sense. I always thought the italian bayonet was the best to use (had one myself).
     
  10. DHCJr

    DHCJr Armorer

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    Craig, I am sure. He told me he was surprised when the Italians didn't protest.

    He didn't give a reason why, but there are a number of rules that are Olympics only. Most of the ones I have heard are publicity related.

    The second one as Bill, stated are because of Television. Leon Paul are legal because they are clear as I stated.

    I don't know this is the reason, but one could be delays and the 'Gods of Television' do not like delays. The organizers could have some body cord on hand, so that there is less delay. If they needed every possible type, that would be a problem. When I asked Dan the reason, he just shrugged. Bill's idea is also very good. They do have a lot of problem with resistance on the wireless system.
     
  11. Peach

    Peach Podium

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    [Breathing sigh of relief because clearly this has nothing to do with me]
     
  12. erooMynohtnA

    erooMynohtnA Podium

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    Does Kruse use bayonet? He wasn't using one in Beijing, and the two prong he was using wasn't LP either, so I'm guessing he had to switch there.
     
  13. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    So your credit card stood firm, then? :D
     
  14. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    Maybe they should push the track & field guys to do away with false starts, then....it takes the field about three hours to reset after one...especially the sprinters....

    The "Gods of TV" are there to facilitate viewership of any sport...not to encourage rule changes to accommodate THEIR broadcast schedules or technical issues.
     
  15. vivoescrimare

    vivoescrimare DE Bracket

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    1.) Sometimes the rules changes do facilitate viewership.

    2.) Track and field doesn't need help improving their image/general popularity - at least not as badly as we do.

    3.) Live in the world that is, not the one you wish would exist.
     
  16. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    For me that only is relative outside of the Olympics....show me the increase in NON-Olympic coverage of fencing as a result of the recent changes (Specifically I'm referring to the lexan masks that were SUPPOSED to be there for more coverage) and I'll change my tune....I haven't seen it. Once every 4 years isn't sufficient.
    Which is what I wish the FIE would tell TV folks to do.
     
  17. vivoescrimare

    vivoescrimare DE Bracket

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    I shouldn't really need to address the flaw inherent in you saying "For any sport..." then specifying afterword that you really only meant fencing, and also only meant relevant to you personally...If that huge Japanese game show that kept throwing close-ups of Ota and his competitor's faces during slow mo's was still online, I'd be happy to link it for you. As it doesn't seem to be, I'm sorry you missed it.

    Suffice to say that the Olympic Games in general seem to do a fine job of marketing to millions of viewers. If the sport of fencing in general (and the US in particular) did a little less crying, "I'm different and have special needs!" and more paying attention to what professionals in the fields of PR and communications tell us, we might be in a better place, wrt publicity.
     
  18. erooMynohtnA

    erooMynohtnA Podium

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    It doesn't matter that fencing had TV coverage of the Fencing Masters and the world cup. You'll just say it wasn't due to the changes. Fencing could be on every major network and you wouldn't change your tune.
     
  19. Gav

    Gav is a Verified Fencing ExpertGav Moderator!!

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    Thing is though. I happen to know someone that was in that meeting. He tells me something completely differnt. When they asked a PR person they were asked why they wanted to change it, why would they want to change it when the likes of F1 seem to manage without needing to see the face. The FIE went ahead with visors masks anyway.

    Ota is a huge star for lots of different reasons. I really doubt whether the visor mask made that much of a difference. Fencing is a major sport in Italy - they don't seem all that bothered by visors masks either.

    It's all about presentation.

    I don't disagree. Fencers do need to get over the "Our sport is really special" but I would say that we also need to use the aspects that make our sport unique.
     
  20. Falcon (XB :)

    Falcon (XB :) Rookie

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    Bill, weapons control quite happily failed every clear-plastic-but-copper-wired mask wire in Paris at Worlds last year. Over and over. Clear with silver wire, ok. White plastic, ok. LP wires didn't pass. It was most annoying.

    OTOH, it would make more sense if there were no insulation tubing on mask wires at all. Would save us from all the non valid touches scored on the mask wire, especially on the coiled, telephone cord-style white plastic coated ones. But that's another story...
     

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