New style Epee Mask Issues

Discussion in 'Armory - Q&A' started by jjefferies, Mar 16, 2019 at 10:48 PM.

  1. jjefferies

    jjefferies Podium

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    Just received a new FWF epee mask and while trying it out found one issue. The new style connection for the elastic band isn't quite as well thought out as one might hope. See the first photo:

    When putting the mask on the elastic moves around as in the 2nd photo. Any suggestions on how to fix this or should just return it as unacceptable? OR is this a known and accepted problem with all the new masks?
     

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 10:59 PM
  2. K O'N

    K O'N Podium

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    Send FWF the picture and ask them what you're supposed to do about that.

    It's bad design. Flat rings like that are intended to be used with heavy webbing, not light elastic that can slide to the ends like that.

    When we were discussing this ages ago I mentioned this problem:

    Your picture is exactly what my friend said would happen.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019 at 4:05 AM
  3. Mergs

    Mergs Podium

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    Yes, this is a bad design, and as Kevin said, may work with solid webbing, but not elastic. One fix is to run a seam of thread between the two pieces of the strap attached to the mask close to the oval ring.
     
  4. Joe biebel

    Joe biebel Podium

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    perhaps a sewn stitch on the elastic on both sides of the mask, as close as possible to the rectangular "ring" on the side that attached to the mask shell might prevent the unwanted rotation.
     
  5. jjefferies

    jjefferies Podium

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    Thanks for the replies. I'm leaning toward returning it. Looking at the mask it appears to me that the design does not remove the elastic as a failure point. In the past that was my biggest issue with the FWF mask which otherwise is very strong and fits my face. Well I do admit that daily use does wear out the cloth liner rather quickly. Something that I hoped the replaceable liner would correct. But returning it means it cost me $36. to try it on. Will look at others at the NAC hopefully at less expense.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019 at 12:26 PM
  6. twisterfencing

    twisterfencing Podium

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    J Jefferies

    Get a needle and thread, Poly thread, not cotton. Sew a line through both sides of the elastic onto the holder so that it cannot slip/slide around. Your done.
    Armorer's" You can send FWF or Negrini or anyone else a message on this, but know, this is what the FIE Semi wanted, the mfg cannot make any changes to it unless, changes made, then send it to Semi, then get re-approval to the update on something the Semi is wanting. In the Southern tongue: it ain't happening.

    We are the approved mask strap updater here in the US for Negrini, PBT and Absolute Fencing. I had to go through a lot of fine details - studying - video's to get the approval which they call the Power Of Attorney to even do the updates here in the US.

    Someone is going to mention what they are doing in Europe right now. I understand. But the agreement I signed, does not match what they are doing.

    Most likely someone is going to ask if we do the ones for Uhlmann-Allstar masks, answer: no.

    Gary Spruill
     
  7. K O'N

    K O'N Podium

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    Gary, what you're describing is called a binding stitch. It will help, but it won't fix the problem.

    The short bit of elastic holding the O-ring to the mask is too soft, it's letting the O-ring tilt to one side. The solution is for the bit holding the O-ring to be stiff nylon webbing, and to use heavier elastic on the strap. In sailing, stuff like the trapeze harness is a very evolved bit of kit, and a jammed strap there can be serious if you can't get out of the thing when you want to (like when the boat is upside down). Riggers take this stuff really seriously, and when I showed an experienced rigger the FIE design he immediately said that if they use light elastic the O-rings will tilt and the strap will jam.
     
  8. twisterfencing

    twisterfencing Podium

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    Hey Kevin,

    I just pulled a AF mask that uses that same black plastic rectangular ring.
    Made it do the 'binding' - 'bulking up' like in the image.
    Used a needle and thread, sewed a simple poly stitch from one end to the other and yes, it still did a little, but stopped most of it.

    From your below message about what is suppose to be used to make it work correctly
    The design I submitted to the SEMI was from automotive seat belt material webbing. Same stuff they use in cars. They turned it down. No reason given. I agree, it should be stronger, but its what they approved and now that mask, with that up date kit from that mfg, is not going to change unless they go through the process of testing again and approvals and adding them to the vault and so on.

    Just one more item to think about when making a buying decision now. Fencing equipment is a maze, and man do I know it.

     
  9. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    For now.

    I have done this many time with the D-rings on jackets and plastrons and the rectangular rings for the suspenders on knickers. It always works great...in the beginning. After a few wearings and washings, believe me, it will all go pear-shaped. Literally. The fix doesn't last very long. The D-ring will end up hanging suspended by one corner with all the material bunched up there, and the rectangular rings will end up hanging by one of the short sides with all the material bunched up there. :(
     
  10. EldRick

    EldRick Podium

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    Perhaps one could sew a short strip of nylon webbing on the inside of the elastic where it passes thru the flat-ring? Maybe sew it along the elastic edges?
    As it stands, that is a stunningly stupid design, and the elastic won't last long stressed like that.
     

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