New Penalty Chart

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by R. Exnicios, Aug 10, 2004.

  1. R. Exnicios

    R. Exnicios Rookie

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    I created a pocket size penalty chart with the nes rules changes. I used the FIE chart for reference. I wanted to get some feed back and revise it if needed. I'll post the final version after I make any corrections.

    Thanks for any input

    Cheers
     

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    telkanuru likes this.
  2. Rolls

    Rolls Rookie

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    Very cool chart. At first, I thought this would be real handy for refs, but now that I think about it, it's pretty handy chart for a fencer to carry around too.

    I can see it now...
    "No, you're supposed to annul the point with that card, see t.##"

    Anyway, my one comment, isn't the turning the back (t.21) no longer a penalty? I'm not sure when that goes in to effect, but I thought it was immediatly.

    Rolls.
     
  3. greenchick

    greenchick Rookie

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    It's reversing the angle of the shoulders that's no longer a penalty, not turning the back.
     
  4. Rolls

    Rolls Rookie

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    Ok, that makes sense... sort of. Just out of curiousity, what's the difference between turning your shoulders and turning the back to your oppponent?

    Rolls.
     
  5. TooLoftheDeviL

    TooLoftheDeviL gother than thou

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    With the former, you're still facing your opponent.
     
  6. kalivor

    kalivor Podium

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    The turning-the-shoulders rule prevented bringing the back shoulder in front of the front shoulder.
     
  7. oiuyt

    oiuyt Podium

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    You rotate in different directions for each. For turning the back you generally rotate counter-clockwise (for a RH fencer viewed from above) and for reversing the shoulders you rotate clockwise (obviously this is flipped for LH fencers (or when viewed from below) and rotating in the shoulder-turning direction sufficiently far will result in turning the back).

    -B :)
     
  8. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    Very cool chart!
     
  9. Schiavona

    Schiavona Rookie

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    As far as I can tell, if you are fencing opposite hands-R to L, L to R, you can turn your rear shoulder completely toward your opponent, just like the bad old days! Same hand fencing you get carded for turning your back toward your opponent. :frightene
     
  10. RETLAG

    RETLAG Rookie

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    Pardon me if I appear dense, but I was under the impression that turning the back was eliminated along with reversing the shoulder angle. I gather this is not so.

    Let me give you an example. We have a foil fencer in our club who likes to flick when he gets in close. To be honest, he doesn't flick as well as perhaps he thinks. On more than one occasion he has attempted a flick, and thinking he had scored, stop the engagement, turn his back and walk back to his en guard line without a light on the scorebox or a halt from the referee. Now, regardless of the rules, this is obviously a stupid thing to do, and his opponent has every right to poke him in the back and score a point. In the past, however this has always been a yellow card infraction. Am I to understand that it still is?
     
  11. Joe biebel

    Joe biebel Podium

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    Great,! Good job. The two "typos" I noticed were: the word "obey" is spelled with an "e" and a space is needed between the words "movement" and "crossing" .
    Joe Biebel
     
  12. kalivor

    kalivor Podium

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    Yes. (56789 ... 10!)
     
  13. downunder

    downunder Podium

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    still a yellow card, but your interpretation is slightly off.

    -----------

    the correct way to referee this situation:

    Call Halt!

    Issue group 1 yellow card to fencer that turns the back.

    Unless the counterattack started before the fencer turned, then annul any hit scored by either fencer. Halt! is called for the offence, any movement commenced after that is non valid.

    -----------


    It happened in the British Senior Womens Foil national semi-final (which i was refereeing), to a huge gasp from the crowd. I'm glad i got the call right tho :rolleyes: :p .
     
  14. Rolls

    Rolls Rookie

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    the US Rule book might be differnet, but it says the following under T.21

    that implies to me that only the fencer turing his/her back would have their point annulled.

    Rolls.
     
  15. oiuyt

    oiuyt Podium

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    Ah, but if the counter-attack (or any other action) hasn't started before the fencer turned (as specified by downunder) then it starts after the halt (regardless of whether or not the word has yet been spoken by the referee). No action that starts after the halt can be awarded a touch.

    Downunder is exactly correct in his/her post.

    -B :)
     
  16. R. Exnicios

    R. Exnicios Rookie

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    Okay here is the most recent chart I created. I did the revisions people pointed out. This one is full size (i.e.) 8.5 x 11 but it becomes pocket size if you reduce it to 60%.

    If you see any mistakes or rules in the wrong place please let me know. FGeel free to use it copy it etc.

    Thanks for the input


    Cheers

    R
     

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  17. edew

    edew Podium

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    Not to sound cheap, but can you make the colors hashed instead of solid yellow/red/black? Toner ink ain't cheap.

    Also, interruption w/o reason (9th first group offense) is misspelled.

    Another is:

    "In Saber, touch scored with the guard; (*) any forward"

    any forward what? (I'm guessing it's crossing of feet or something to that regard).
     
  18. keith

    keith Rookie

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    in the first panel the box containing;

    In Saber, touch scored with the guard;(*) any forward

    looks like you cut of the second line.

    very handy, dull day at work?
     
  19. R. Exnicios

    R. Exnicios Rookie

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    I'll make the corrections and post it.


    Telephone Conference. :)

    Cheers
     
  20. Kat

    Kat Rookie

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    Nice job. One more small thing I noticed; it is "corps à corps" as opposed to "corps á corps" as you wrote it on the chart.
     

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