New FIE Mask Requirements

Discussion in 'Armory - Q&A' started by bobb121, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. neevel

    neevel Armorer

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2000
    Messages:
    3,475
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Regarding the 170 lb strength number: That appears to be one of the standard strength ratings available for industrial-grade hook and loop fasteners. SEMI most likely chose that value precisely because it is something readily available, and for homologation purposes they probably won't be actually doing their own strength tests on it, but will want to see documentation that a hook and loop fastener of that strength rating from a reputable manufacturer is being used.
     
  2. K O'N

    K O'N Podium

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    3,946
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas Riviera
    No doubt most people will do that. Some of us like to work on our own stuff, and some of us have a club full of masks.

    There seems to be a lot of confusion around this. Upthread someone thought the value was for peel strength (!!).

    The pdf says:

    Presumably in shear. Ok. But right below that it says:

    Which is why I tested the 3/16" rivet through 1" nylon strap.

    I presume they intended the plastic rings to be considered as part of the "tags".

    Happily, the footman loops riveted to the mask are not specified in the letter, they're just shown as an example.

    I can't see any reason to do it that way. 2" nylon riveted to the mesh should last the life of the mask, it's simpler, and there's no risk of catching your ear or face on protruding hardware. Even if you want to go with o-rings and a velcro strap as in the FIE's example, the two short straps holding the o-rings can be riveted on to make a much simpler and better attachment point.
     
  3. dcchew

    dcchew Podium

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    788
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    The updated mask is required only for FIE sanctioned events. Our own national organization and US SEMI haven't announced whether or not they will follow suit.

    However, it's a good idea for clubs to always check all of their equipment that they provide for their students and members for safety related issues.
     
  4. twisterfencing

    twisterfencing Podium

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,072
    Just a follow up on the mask strap system.

    Have been in contact with the FIE SEMI and reps.


    In regards to the new mask strap system, the SEMI (FIE) has made the decision that all FIE masks *must* be updated by the MFG of the mask or; by an approved re-seller of the mask to make the updates.


    I made the attempt to have *our* strap system (retro-fit) to be homologated by the SEMI that would be allowed to be used by any and all masks that were FIE approved. This was an item that they (SEMI) really did not want to get involved in due to liability issues.


    What does this all mean to those with FIE masks??


    · You will need to contact the re-seller where you bought your mask and find out if they are approved to do the strap update

    · You may need to send you’re FIE mask back to the MFG to have the update done.

    · I will only be doing the retro-update on Negrini masks as an approved reseller of this mask. I will also be doing the retro-fit on masks we sold

    · If you are in a time crunch; you may (meaning I don’t know) have to purchase a new mask with the strap system in place. Our masks; Negrini; has yet to even let us know when the new masks will be available. I am in discussion with them now to get their parts to do the updates for our current inventory.

    Reminder: The US SEMI has not at this time adopted this rule and; the new strap system really only applies to those traveling overseas to be used in FIE events to start later this year in 2018, again: US SEMI has not adopted the rule *yet*.


    Now: for 350N masks


    · I will have a kit for those that want an updated strap system or: if the US SEMI puts this same rule into place for all masks (again – do not know if this will happen or not), I will have an option for all non-FIE masks.


    Our strap system consists of:

    · 4000lbs tensile strength webbing

    · 300lbs tensile strength Velcro

    · Stainless steel rivets

    · YKK 2” loop rings

    · Passes a 240lb pull test, not a 170lb

    Not going to go into the process of this, but you can see just from the parts, this strap system of ours is going way beyond what the FIE wanted by light years. You can ask, but know, not going to answer process questions.


    For those that purchased a FIE Negrini mask from us, we will be doing the update for you at Sword Masters. I do not know right now the *when* we will have Negrini parts yet, but am assured, coming soon??


    For those that want to have any non-FIE masks done, we will have everything needed to do the update starting at the Memphis NAC.


    I will have the strap system *kit* for all our DIY-er’s available on the website soon. Several details I am working out and want it perfect first, but there will be a note on the kit that states “this is a non-FIE kit” so that I don’t get caught with the “I did not know” statement. Note: if you are a DIY-er, this kit will have rivets involved. If you are not used to working with rivets, may consider buying it or not. All of our straps will be identified as follows: Red Velcro will be retro-fit kits we installed, Blue Velcro on the straps will identify a sold to customer as a Kit for the fencer to install.


    Gary Spruill
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
  5. ktinoue3

    ktinoue3 Podium

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2014
    Messages:
    217
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington, United States
    Anyone know where US fencing is in the progress of discussion/debate over adopting the new requirements?
     
  6. twisterfencing

    twisterfencing Podium

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,072
    ktinoue3
    They (US SEMI) only make a recommendation to the board,
    No one except a member of the US SEMI board can or will answer this/your question, and they are pretty good about keeping a tight lips on these type issues until the Board makes a decision on it.
    Once the Board votes on it, yes or no, is when you will get your answer.
    I know most of the US Semi members. (Texan) they ain't saying nothing!


     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
  7. ktinoue3

    ktinoue3 Podium

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2014
    Messages:
    217
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington, United States
    twisterfencing,
    I figured that was the case. I just hope that vote comes sooner rather than later.
     
  8. dcchew

    dcchew Podium

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    788
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    The first event where the "new" mask will be required is the upcoming Junior/Cadet World Championships. I have been told by Leon Paul USA that Leon Paul will be retrofitting their masks at that event.

    I was also told by Leon Paul USA that their mask with the new back straps have been in their inventory since December. I can verify this since I saw 2 Leon Paul X-Change masks with the new back straps at recent RYC and ROC in the last 2 weekends.
     
  9. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Messages:
    37,164
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Somewhere in your nightmares!
    Even without a large number of requests to have this done, though, one suspects that it's going to take days or weeks to do. That is to say, the actual retrofit may take only minutes, but it's not going to be done immediately, and that will make it problematic to hand over a mask for processing unless one has another to use at the competition.
     
  10. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Messages:
    37,164
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Somewhere in your nightmares!
    Because I hate to make another new thread about this...

    Has USA Fencing adopted/mandated the lower-mounted double-loop mask strap for domestic competitions yet? Or are masks with the old strap arrangements still allowed as long as you aren't doing FIE tournaments?
     
  11. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2001
    Messages:
    16,595
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North Hollywood, ca USA
    Last I knew it was not adopted by usfa. If it had been, we’d be seeing all masks with the upgraded system.
     
  12. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Messages:
    37,164
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Somewhere in your nightmares!
    I have been seeing a lot of them...

    I just want to know whether the armorers will be expecting to see a lot of them. Which is to say ALL of them.
     
  13. nasnem

    nasnem Made the Cut

    Joined:
    May 29, 2014
    Messages:
    92
    There is currently no requirement to use the new strap system in any USFA event. The strap is only required for FIE events.
     
  14. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Messages:
    37,164
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Somewhere in your nightmares!
    Thank you.

    I could not find anything one way or another about it on the USA Fencing website, but then things can hide pretty well there so I couldn't be sure.
     
  15. brtech

    brtech Podium

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2003
    Messages:
    2,429
    There is no announced decision as far as I know. I expect one soon. It's safe to assume you don't need to get a new mask any time soon. It's also safe to assume if you buy a new one, you should get the new strap. It's A LOT safer.
     
  16. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2001
    Messages:
    16,595
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North Hollywood, ca USA
    I haven't seen the new system on any non-FIE masks...yet. I fully expect it to happen sometime in the future.
     
  17. jfarmer

    jfarmer DE Bracket

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    937
    One hopes that we get a bit of notice about it... But that would be wishful thinking, right?

    (Stares at box of non-FIE masks needing new elastic straps...)
     

Share This Page