NAACP issues travel advisory for Missouri, and USFA has two major events in MO this season

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by ReadyFence, Aug 2, 2017.

  1. OrangeandStripey

    OrangeandStripey Made the Cut

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2016
    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    18

    I dunno. I suspect Jesse Owens probably had a bit of a problem with Nazism but he went to his Olympics in his day. I think that's the right thing to do... show up and compete especially if you work so hard to be an olympian. I'm not a fan of boycotting events
     
    mpego1 and Black Widow like this.
  2. flechewounds1

    flechewounds1 Made the Cut

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    7
    St. Louis in the summer... from my perspective, any reason is a good reason to ditch that...

    That being said, we are a pretty diverse group of individuals and I think that we should avoid places that allow legal discrimination of any form - be it race, religion, orientation, identity. We just need to make non-discrimination part of our bid package.
     
  3. jdude97

    jdude97 Podium

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,616
    Likes Received:
    145
    A few things:
    - The US almost did boycott the 1936 Olympics, and one of the reasons it didn't was so that Germany wouldn't just win all the medals. Compare to fencing in a certain state, where you're not actually competing against the state, but against people from all over, so this point doesn't apply.
    - Some Jewish athletes did boycott the 1936 Olympics. Others were told they weren't allowed to come. Others still were allowed to compete by the Nazis as propaganda and to prevent a boycott, but some Jewish athletes were arrested by the Nazis during the games!
    - Jesse Owens was likely given special protection during the Olympics, both by the US delegation and because it would be a publicity nightmare if something were to happen to a famous athlete. An individual athlete at USFA national event has very little protection from the USFA, especially outside of the venue.
    - Sporting event boycotts have had a documented history of success. The decades long boycott of South Africa in everything from the Olympics to rugby played a role in helping end apartheid. After the NBA and NCAA boycotted North Carolina over the bathroom law, a number of other states decided not to enact similar laws, and eventually NC repealed portions of their own law. These boycotts had a real economic effect. Politicians talk a big talk but at the end of the day, they're not going to jeopardize local jobs (and therefore their own jobs once unemployed voters vote them out of office).
    - Keep in mind that there are two different kinds of sports boycotts. Those by individuals not to go to a certain event and those by associations not to hold events in a certain place. The former has little non-symbolic effect, as once an important event is set to take place, few people will have the conviction not to attend. The latter is the one we're talking about in this thread with regards to the USFA, and as we saw with North Carolina, could have a big effect due to the lost revenue to the state.
     
    Privateer and erooMynohtnA like this.
  4. Blackwood

    Blackwood Made the Cut

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Messages:
    351
    Likes Received:
    21
    I'm not necessarily against sports boycotts of states that declare themselves unwilling to welcome athletes of all types by passing discriminatory laws or tolerating discriminatory practices.
    Any NGB that decides to implement such a boycott needs to treat all states equally. The states to be boycotted should meet some objective standard of discrimination.
    It's not clear to me that the NAACP statement shows that Missouri is the only state that discriminates in this way, it seems more likely that Missouri is the first state to fall short of their standards since they decided to start issuing these advisories.
     
    OrangeandStripey likes this.
  5. Steve Khinoy

    Steve Khinoy DE Bracket

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2005
    Messages:
    605
    Likes Received:
    66
    Could you point us to the "advisory?"
     
  6. Allen Evans

    Allen Evans Podium

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2003
    Messages:
    4,729
    Likes Received:
    760
    I'm not sure how you could miss it. Type "NCAA travel advisory for Missouri" in your favorite search engine.
     
  7. OrangeandStripey

    OrangeandStripey Made the Cut

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2016
    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    18
    "jdude97, post: 1187325, member: 51601"]A few things:

    - Some Jewish athletes did boycott the 1936 Olympics. Others were told they weren't allowed to come. Others still were allowed to compete by the Nazis as propaganda and to prevent a boycott, but some Jewish athletes were arrested by the Nazis during the games!

    Didn't help the outcome much did it? Boycotts DON'T work. They only harm the athletes who spend their entire lives only to get shafted because someone thought the host country was wrong on some political issue. The Olympics and sport in general should be outside of that, beyond it. People competing to find out who the best is and to find out where their own shortcomings are.


    - Jesse Owens was likely given special protection during the Olympics, both by the US delegation and because it would be a publicity nightmare if something were to happen to a famous athlete. An individual athlete at USFA national event has very little protection from the USFA, especially outside of the venue.

    If fencing as a whole is worried about how Missouri is going to treat our non-white, non heteronormatives, then as fencers you should befriend them and watch over them and make sure they are safe. That's what friends do. But do not inconvenience the whole of fencing by telling them you can only fence in Antarctica because that's the only place that never discriminated against anyone.


    - Sporting event boycotts have had a documented history of success. The decades long boycott of South Africa in everything from the Olympics to rugby played a role in helping end apartheid.

    Sorry, but this is pure, undocumentable BS. Pure speculation. Apartheid would have ended without the lack of sports involvement.


    After the NBA and NCAA boycotted North Carolina over the bathroom law, a number of other states decided not to enact similar laws, and eventually NC repealed portions of their own law. These boycotts had a real economic effect. Politicians talk a big talk but at the end of the day, they're not going to jeopardize local jobs (and therefore their own jobs once unemployed voters vote them out of office).
    - Keep in mind that there are two different kinds of sports boycotts. Those by individuals not to go to a certain event and those by associations not to hold events in a certain place. The former has little non-symbolic effect, as once an important event is set to take place, few people will have the conviction not to attend. The latter is the one we're talking about in this thread with regards to the USFA, and as we saw with North Carolina, could have a big effect due to the lost revenue to the state.

    I agree individual boycotts are meaningless. But I also don't think state governing bodies care one rat's ass about a small niche sport like fencing. us boycotting missouri would probably solicit a response of "so effing what".. which does precious little to change anyone's minds.

    IF missouri was the best deal the USFA could get and now we 'boycott' that means we all spend more money finding a new venue or maybe we dont have nationals at all. Hmmm. I'm a fencer, and while I'm sympathetic to people's plights:bathrooms, gender issues, racial issues, I'm not so much that I am willing to sacrifice fencing for that end. Sorry, I'm just not, and all the virtue signaling in the world isn't going to change anything... it will however silently alienate the majority of the people too afraid to say anything but will act nonetheless. We've seen that happen recently, much to my pleasant surprise.

    We are not as large nor as powerful as the NCAA and so any attempt to stand up for whatever issue is likely only going to hurt the rank and file and not help AT ALL.

    I think the best way isn't avoidance. It's confrontation.. it's bringing all of the varied colors shapes sizes etc. that the USFA represents to EVERY state we can get a good deal in.

    PS: i think the whole idea about the NAACP saying something about Missouri is ludicrous. FFS, we had summer nationals in ATLANTA one year... there were examples of overt racism every day I was there.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017 at 9:08 AM
    Marc likes this.
  8. VorpalCat

    VorpalCat Podium

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,126
    Likes Received:
    158
    Remember kids, if it doesn't bother OrangeandStripey, it shouldn't bother you.......
     
  9. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Messages:
    36,051
    Likes Received:
    1,143
    That should be "NAACP", no?
     
    ReadyFence likes this.
  10. teacup

    teacup Podium

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,843
    Likes Received:
    163
  11. Steve Khinoy

    Steve Khinoy DE Bracket

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2005
    Messages:
    605
    Likes Received:
    66
    Thanks for the link, Teacup. "Travel Advisory" purports to be a warning of danger to travelers, as in a travel advisory for Americans in North Korea ( now a ban, I think) or a travel advisory for visitors to Florence during the plague of 1348, or a travel advisory for a wildfire area. It doesn't purport to be a call for a boycott, which urges an action as a matter of principle. The claim is that the NAA is warning CPeople that it's less safe to be in Missouri than elsewhere in the US.
    So I'm thinking through this. I think that the NAACP position is hyperbolic, but also that it's up to persons of color to decide whether to take it seriously. And if they (here, fencers of color) decide to take it seriously, I will stand with them.
     
  12. nyc-mum

    nyc-mum Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2014
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    7
     

Share This Page