Mounting School Logos to Masks

Discussion in 'Armory - Q&A' started by s.brookes, May 18, 2017.

  1. s.brookes

    s.brookes Made the Cut

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    Hello armorers!

    I'm sure we've all seen Notre Dame's masks with the logo mounted on the side:

    [​IMG]

    Dartmouth is exploring doing to same thing... we've gotten a cutout made using a laser cutter and green anodized aluminum:

    [​IMG]

    So the question is, how should we attach these to the masks? Rivets is the obvious answer, but I'm hoping you all have more insight on specifically what parts to use... LP seems to use pop rivets (one small semi-spherical half, one large flat round half with a hole in the center) while Absolute seems to have other rivets (two symmetrical flat round smooth halves).

    What types and sizes of rivets would you all suggest? I know many of you preform repairs on masks and may have experience with this stuff. Also, any leads on suppliers? The size we have been looking at seem to need to be special ordered, looking at a 4-6 week wait.

    By the way, any issues with the legality of these? I've seen the Notre Dame masks regularly pass National-level equipment checks, so I'm assuming it's fine?

    Thanks so much!!!

    Scott
     
  2. brtech

    brtech Podium

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    Armorers hate them, but there is no rule we can cite, as long as we can clearly see the mesh. You are covering mesh, so we can't test there, and you are distorting mesh to get the rivets in. I will tell you that I won't cut ANY slack on a mask with something like this. If the mesh looks suspicious, because I can't punch it, it fails.

    A pop rivet is fine.
    is probably good enough. You have to get the plat to lie flat on the mesh because you only get 1/4" grip from those. Use an awl to widen the mesh JUST ENOUGH to get the rivet in. There are longer rivets you can use with a backing washer.
     
  3. mfp

    mfp Podium

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    Anodized aluminum? As in anodized to get a protective non-conductive surface coating?

    If it's non-conductive, then it probably shouldn't be on the side of a saber mask.

    And if it's conductive, then it probably shouldn't be on the side of an epee mask.
     
  4. s.brookes

    s.brookes Made the Cut

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    Interesting, I hadn't considered this. Totally fair, though. We're really excited about these on the team, so we're hoping to find a way to make it work.

    We have been looking into acquiring 1/16" rivets in order to avoid having to make any modification to the mesh. This is why we've been having trouble finding them. Do you think it's worth the extra hassle to get these smaller rivets in order to avoid having to avoid enlarging the mesh?
     
  5. dcchew

    dcchew Podium

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  6. s.brookes

    s.brookes Made the Cut

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    I forgot to mention in the original post that we are not considering these for saber masks due to the non-conductivity of the green portion of the logo.

    I did not consider that the conductivity of the visible aluminum could be an issue... is that a major problem? It doesn't seem like a big deal to me due to the very small size and remote (unconnected) location...
     
  7. s.brookes

    s.brookes Made the Cut

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    Thanks for the suggestion! We are considering this especially for saber masks. For pointed weapons ((usually) black masks) we don't think the green will stand out well enough to look really good. So, we're hoping for this option.
     
  8. mfp

    mfp Podium

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    How does that 3 mm diameter rivet uh... mesh :) with the max 2.1 mm mesh spacing specified in m.25 7.a ?

    The 1/16" rivets s.brookes mentions would seem more suitable if someone really insisted on bolting something on the side of a mask.
     
  9. s.brookes

    s.brookes Made the Cut

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    I also found 3/32" more easily available than the 1/16"... they may be a happy medium between too big and too rare.

    Obviously manufacturers rivet all sorts of things to the mesh, so there must be a correct way to do the riveting itself. Concealing the mesh another issue, of course.
     
  10. Mergs

    Mergs Podium

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    Well, I disagree with Brian on this and say that not all armorers hate them. To me as long as they are attached so that it doesn't damage the mesh and the edges are such that they won't catch a point, I'm ok with it. If it covers the mesh to me that provides a better shield than the mesh. At the JC World in '15 they made us remove the ND from one of the masks, but not others after the issue was raised. Dan D was part of that SEMI crew that approved them.

    I would say, though, that if you are worried about them passing at NAC's that you contact the US-SEMI with your proposal, and possibly a sample of the installed logo, to get their approval.
     
  11. Mergs

    Mergs Podium

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    You could alodine them, which is conductive. There are also some paints that could be used - like what are used on strips.
     
  12. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee Podium

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    Not as a hater, but wouldn't these funds be better spent improving team performance? Anything beyond team socks or shoulder patches is (modifying "is" - not the plural nouns) over-kill.
     
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  13. s.brookes

    s.brookes Made the Cut

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    They're not very expensive, and have provided a great opportunity for one of my fencers to do a little project in the machine shop at our engineering school.

    Moreover, there really are other benefits... anything like this makes the team seem more "legit." This motivates the fencers more strongly to commit their time to the program and to represent their school in competition. These types of things excite our alumni, parents and administrators, who are all huge sources of support for our team, financial and otherwise.

    Plus, it will make it easier to find my fencers in the middle of a tournament :)

    Also think they will look fantastic.
     
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  14. s.brookes

    s.brookes Made the Cut

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    Thanks for the reply, Mergs! I'm actually not especially concerned about them passing at NACs since, historically, very few of our fencers compete regularly at that level. I just want to do this in a way that ruffles as few feathers as possible. Contacting US-SEMI is a good idea that I may pursue. Best way to get in touch with them?

    I am hoping that using the correct rivets will avoid any damage or modification to the mesh so that, in a pinch, the rivets can be quickly ground off and the mask can be tested fairly without the logo.
     
  15. Mergs

    Mergs Podium

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  16. K O'N

    K O'N Podium

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    Why would conductive aluminum be a problem? Bare steel masks are conductive, and they're fine for epee.
     
  17. keropie

    keropie Podium

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    The note under m.30.2 says that non insulated mesh on an epee mask is not allowed for electric competition. A conductive panel is more questionable.
     
  18. K O'N

    K O'N Podium

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    Huh, you're right. Thanks. I knew the lame bibs were not allowed, I wasn't aware that bare steel mesh was also not allowed. I wonder when that got slipped in?
     
  19. brtech

    brtech Podium

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  20. mfp

    mfp Podium

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    That USFA note was added 5 years ago.
     

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