most impact "absorbing" jacket or underjacket

Discussion in 'Armory - Q&A' started by microStiff, Apr 17, 2011.

  1. microStiff

    microStiff Rookie

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    hello,

    I hate it when after "heated" epee fights I get bruises. I really mind the bruises in the gut area. I know... don't get hit...improve on your skills.

    I wan't to buy some "better" equipment. Which jackets absorb the most impact?

    800N on the manunfacturer site doesn't really say that much.

    Any suggestions? I really don't mind the extra weight and sweat.
     
  2. erooMynohtnA

    erooMynohtnA Podium

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    800 N jackets will not protect against bruising from forceful hits. Typically, the more expensive an 800 N jacket is, the thinner it will be.

    From what I recall some of Triplette FIE jackets were really heavy, but you could just go with any plain cotton jacket to absorb hits. No jacket will really protect from the hardest hits, especially in epee.
     
  3. SJCFU#2

    SJCFU#2 Podium

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    If bruises are a big concern then you might consider a padded jacket (like this one from Absolute). However I'm not sure that I would consider it "better" than what you currently have. For one thing it will probably feel even hotter due to the extra layers of fabric. For another it won't provide the same degree of protection against penetration as a 800N jacket (although it might be an improvement over a basic "club" jacket).
     
  4. prototoast

    prototoast Podium

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    If you really want protection from impact, either get a hard plastic chestplate or wear one of these under your jacket. Don't ask the jacket to do something it wasn't designed to do.
     
  5. microStiff

    microStiff Rookie

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    Well, I don't want to stand out in the fencing club with the "ueber" jacket.

    I'd like to know which jackets and plastrons are the "heaviest" from the regular manufacturers like LP, Allstar, epoc, uhlmann, negrini, etc. They take real pleasure in not writing weight and the thickness of the jackets on their sites.

    Thanks for the replies. I'd never imagine that 800N is just a super thin anti-stab sheet.

    The chest plate I wear is way to short. I have trouble finding one that would go to the waist area.
     
  6. D'Art

    D'Art Rookie

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    Get a carpet sample and thread some string through it. Cheap as chips, and also could give you interior design ideas.
     
  7. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    Probably something from Triplette. Back in pre-electric sabre days I had a jacket from them which was so heavy and stiff that it would just about stand up on its own. I doubt they make them like that any more---people tended to make, ah, substantial cuts back then, so jackets tended to be made to take the punishment. But their current jacket is 13 oz. denim...
     
  8. Gav

    Gav is a Verified Fencing ExpertGav Moderator!!

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    Get yourself a chest plate (if you're a bloke the parlance is "manplate" around my way). If it's too small you either have the wrong size (is that possible?), are wearing it incorrectly (so that it hangs up near your collar bones) or your fencing some really bad fencers (and so they can't even hit you consistently in the middle of the chestplate).

    Or some combination of all of the above.

    I have to say that some bruising is inevitable. You need to get used to, or find ways of dealing with, it. I know nothing about you or your fencing but I would definitely say that you need to look at your technique and be mindful of the poor technique of those you are fencing. If it's so sore you can't bear it then something is very wrong.

    And I speak as someone who bruises easily!

    LP's sydney jacket, while not cheap, is that best I've ever worn. Combine that with with a decent plastron (always buy FIE grade) and how much more padding are you going to need?

    The trend for thinner materials that are still puncture resistant is a great boon to fencing. Fencing is inherently actively athletic and you need materials which are lightweight, breathable and flexible.

    Here's my general point to you specifically: Buy FIE only. The higher grade, more resistant, material will feel better and it's worth the investment.

    Some uniforms are thinner than others. Both the Sydney and the Allstar 800N are about as thick as you conceivably want. I also like the new materials that LP introduce in there budget ranges as these are about the right thickness too.
     
  9. piste off

    piste off Podium

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    Try to get one of the cheaper Allstar or Uhlmann (World Cup) jackets on closeout. Their new ones are thinner, but the old ones (not the Startex or more expensive line) are thicker.

    Also, go to a craft store like Michael's. They sell some plastic sheets that are like a grid (for knitting and such). They are flexible and perfect to extend the plastic man plate. I have them in my coach gear (several layers) and they are great (breathe, flexible, light).

    R-
     
  10. wdragon007

    wdragon007 DE Bracket

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    Want some advice on bruises and pain? The two statements below were said to me when I started fencing.

    First, from my girlfriend: "If you don't want bruises, don't get hit."
    Second, from my epee coach: "Don't worry... after a while you destroy the nerves and don't feel the hits as much."

    Seriously though, Absolute does have a padded plastron that I really like. It does make you significantly hotter than a standard one but if you're partnered with someone who tends to hit hard during drills (and tends to hit in the exact same spot on your sternum), it makes those ten fleche attacks in a row a little less painful. :)
     
  11. Superscribe

    Superscribe Rookie

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    I'd like to recommend the FWF 800 newton jacket that fencing.net sells. it's nice and thick with a liner. it feels great.

    It's a nice high end jacket with a lot of impact absorption.
     
  12. microStiff

    microStiff Rookie

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    Thank you for your recommendations.

    Well, there is this guy who I call "Crazy Pavel" he hits like I've insulted his wife and his 6 unborn children and one more guy who hits just a little less of the first. The rest of the fencing guys I pair are OK. Next time I fence any of the crazies I will never step forward.

    I am wearing PBT 350N which is dual layer and pretty heavy as is. Would the LP London range provide any more impact absorption? How about the LP 360? I'd prefer to buy from European vendor as the customs will kill me for 300+$ jacket.

    For starters I will upgrade my plastron. I am wearing Allstar 800N lightweight no impact protection at all just anti-puncture.

    What do you think about Allstar Mens FIE 3/4 Ecoline Plastron (it reads impact absorbing materila) and the LP 800N Economy (2x470N dual layer)? The LP looks super uncomfortable around the neck area but the material looks dense.

    Will definitely order the Absolute padded one at 20$ no worries for the customs but I also like to have a FIE one.

    Does anybody know for a chestplate that covers the full torso? That crazy guy manages to hit me just bellow the belly and above the groin. That area is not covered by the chest plate.
     
  13. VorpalCat

    VorpalCat Podium

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    A single plate that covers from collar bones to groin is going to be hugely uncomfortable for anything but standing up straight. Maybe a second manplate, upper straps removed, worn upside down with the wide strap at the waist and the bottom (formerly top) edge trimmed to a more friendly shape..... (Didn't start out with that as a serious thought but the more I think about it, the more I wonder, just out of sheer, bloody-minded curiosity!)
     
  14. kalivor

    kalivor Podium

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    Quality fencing jackets and plastrons are NOT made for softening impact.

    Other sports have plenty of stuff:
    http://www.trick-x.com/detail.php?AR_STAT02=Dorsale&AR_REF=TXPRSKI#produits
    http://www.mysticboarding.com/products/men/impact/star-zip/black-blue/
    http://www.all-starsports.com/MOVEFORWARD/index.html

    Also, security outfits:
    http://www.thebodyarmourcompany.co.uk/#/covert-body-armour/4535481309

    Take a look on sites selling kit for sports where impacts are a *problem* (rather than an inconvenience), and you are likely to find all sorts of solutions. Asking fencers will get a mix of recommendations for budget fencing kit that is over-padded, home-made solutions, and suggestions to "suck it up".
     
  15. Gav

    Gav is a Verified Fencing ExpertGav Moderator!!

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    You're welcome.

    Don't fence him. Don't fence them. Simple.

    And certainly don't radically alter your fencing. Yes be a better fencer. No don't allow them to dictate how you fence.

    You are coming at this from the wrong angle. You need to be fast and agile, not slow and encumbered. Several people have recommended good quality gear - me included. Get one of those combos. There will not be a magic combo-solution to the issue you describe.

    No no no no no. This is going to harm your fencing. Again: you are not a knight in armour you are a fencer. Learn to fence better or see my point about refusing to fence him.

    Just to be clear.

    You are going to get bruised. You will, so accept it and find a way to deal with it.
    It will occasionally hurt. This is normal.
    If you are fencing nutjobs then find better people to fence. Don't be afraid to change clubs if that is an option.
    And fence better. Bit of a cheap shot but fencing better will help stop people from hitting you. Plus ... you will be a better fencer. This seems to be the win-win solution.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2011
  16. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    This.

    They are the problem. They have to learn that fencing is not about cleaving the opponent in half. It's not combat, and you should not have to cope with their brutality. Tell them that with respect you are just not going to fence them until they can manage to control themselves. If everyone does this they will have to change or fence each other exclusively. Peer pressure is a powerful motivator.
     
  17. fordhook2000

    fordhook2000 Rookie

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    lol I know fencing salles are often in the bad part of town, but wearing body armor under your kit is probably a little much... Or maybe you just need to lay off harassing your clubmates and be a little nicer! :blah:

    Some of my clubmates want me to wear my vest to fence sometime, I think just so they can stab it, but I'd rather not subject it to any abuse I don't have to so that (god-forbid) if I ever need it it'll be in the best possible shape to protect me.
     
  18. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    You used to be able to buy old military flak vests in surplus stores, cheap. Those would achieve the same thing for fencing purposes, though they are not bullet-resistant and probably not even of great protective value against a broken blade...
     
  19. Degenmeister

    Degenmeister Rookie

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    I have been using the LP 800N economy underarm protector for several years. It is rather thick and does get a bit hot at times, but it does a good job of absorbing impact. The neck area is rather uncomfortable at first, but I don't notice it after I start fencing.

     
  20. kalivor

    kalivor Podium

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    I do think that the whole idea behind this thread is a little silly. If you don't have an injury that requires something that requires impact absorbing protection, suck it up.

    If you do, protect yourself properly, not with a cheap padded plastron.

    Personally, I think that if you're whining about the occasional hard hit, you probably shouldn't be participating in a sport which involves getting stuck repeatedly with metal sticks. Maybe that's just me.
     

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