LP Wireless System

Discussion in 'Armory - Q&A' started by rudd, Jul 28, 2015.

  1. brtech

    brtech Podium

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2003
    Messages:
    2,429
    It would not take a lot of work to automate readings. I'd do it by using photocells (and filters if needed) on the actual lights. A day or two of engineering, tops, $25 Arduino if you aren't already using something like it.
     
  2. DHCJr

    DHCJr Armorer

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2002
    Messages:
    5,481
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    True, but try getting all that put on a machine. Also, suppose they were 'Approved' that version was approved at multiple Worlds. The FIE has always allowed it to be shortened to 'FIE Approved'. And what does the rules matter to the FIE when approving machines.

    I have been at multiple Worlds/Olympics where the machines used were 'Approved', but did not follow the rules in force at that time. 1984 had buttons on one side and the clock on the other. The clock must be visible and the buttons must be on the top or the front. 2001 Jr. Worlds they had machines that had the Sabre Yellow light on one fencers side and some on the other. The first use of the Wireless for Epee and Foil stated no 'over the air transmission'. All were illegal by the rules and all were approved.
     
  3. brtech

    brtech Podium

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2003
    Messages:
    2,429
    I agree that the FIE has always played fast and loose in this area, as have the manufacturers. SEMI approves what they want to approve, and don't approve what they don't want to approve, and the written rules are treated as general guidance. The manufacturers lead you to believe that the FIE really has approved the machine, implying "for all competitions", when it doesn't.

    It could be made a whole lot better, but it is what it is.

    I would like to see a more rigorous machine homolgation procedure that involves checksums of code, versions of hardware, certification statements (that no changes have been made since tests were conducted), automated tests, random tests, and more rigorousness on the rules themselves.

    That isn't going to happen any time soon.
     
    DHCJr likes this.
  4. sydgorman

    sydgorman Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Count me among people interested in buying this. My club plans on opening a location in the near future, and it'd be great to be wireless.
     
  5. MHC

    MHC Made the Cut

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2014
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    New Orleans, Louisiana, United States
    Alex,

    I really like that you guys are trying to make a workable wireless system that clubs can use. I know a ton of clubs in the US who would benefit from this. (The issue is convincing them to buy your system as their reels wear out.)

    As for the a tournament version, it seems like it would speed up pools substantially if each fencer had a unit that they just sync to the box when they come on strip. (Or if there were 4 units so that the people who were on-deck could go on and hook up.)

    FWIW, when you get ready to make a tournament version, I would recommend talking to an economist who specializes in platform economics and industrial organization to find out whether it is more profitable to keep the whole system proprietary or if you stand to make more money promoting it as a standard and trying to get it to the point where every fencer has a unit as part of their gear. (If you don't have anyone in the UK, I could see if some US people I know would be willing to talk to you about this.)
     
  6. shogun_2056

    shogun_2056 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2010
    Messages:
    7
    What is the role-out schedule looking like? My club in New Brunswick, Canada, would be interested in buying at least two and up to six of these sets if they're released for purchase before August 1st (the start of the Canadian fencing season) and assuming that the aforementioned features/quality pans out. We've been holding out on purchasing replacement systems for our current salle since the first mention of this system last summer; unfortunately, we will be forced to purchase another system if it isn't on the market by some point this summer.
     
  7. Alex_Paul

    Alex_Paul Podium

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,099
    Location:
    London UK
    Hard to say I am afraid. I had targeted Fall 2015 but missed that. I am close but I can't guarantee a date.

    Plenty of sets in club use now so we will get there soon I hope!
     
  8. David Sierra

    David Sierra DE Bracket

    Joined:
    May 14, 2013
    Messages:
    714
    Location:
    North Richland Hills, Texas, United States
    *sigh* I may have to just bite the bullet and upgrade my Faveros.

    Need something ready to go after Summer Nationals.
     
  9. bobb121

    bobb121 Podium

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2005
    Messages:
    735
    Alex,

    Do you have an update on the wireless systems?
     
  10. Alex_Paul

    Alex_Paul Podium

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,099
    Location:
    London UK
    We should have a set on show at the US nationals.

    We are getting there but the last tweaks to sabre are taking longer than expected. I have released a limited number of foil epee sets in the UK for sale. Reception so far has been great. I think I have about ten sets in various clubs in fairly heavy use with no real issues.

    In foil there is one byproduct of how the the system works that some people struggle with. In if you hit your own bare hand then some people will get a coloured light, others a white light. We don't think we can engineer this out. Foilists tend to think that this is a disaster until I point out that the same thing happens in normal wired epee. You don't get epeeists trying to hit their own rear hand so it really isn't a problem in use but it does initially freak foilists out because it is different to how a wired system works.

    Other than that it is all good. The sync process is now a joy to use so you can skip from one strip to another or from the red side to the green side in seconds.

    I still can't firm up on the delivery date but do now have a confirmed US price of $1099 which makes it comfortably cheaper than most half decent wired setups.
     
  11. sdubinsky

    sdubinsky DE Bracket

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Messages:
    330
    Alex,
    What will individual fencer packs cost?
     
  12. Alex_Paul

    Alex_Paul Podium

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,099
    Location:
    London UK
    Somewhere around $180
     
  13. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,976
    For that price, I can buy my club a VSM. Not price-competitive in the States.
     
  14. oiuyt

    oiuyt Podium

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2000
    Messages:
    10,284
    Location:
    Pennsauken, NJ
    A wireless VSM? Are apples and oranges the same price?

    B
     
  15. keropie

    keropie Podium

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,554
    Location:
    Chapel Hill, NC
    They are not; however, some people don't really care which one they eat, and generally wireless fencing isn't that much of a draw at the clubs I am aware of. Though honestly, I'm hoping to see one at some point and get a chance to play; it'd be neat to see what it's like.
     
  16. brtech

    brtech Podium

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2003
    Messages:
    2,429
    When you consider the cost, remember it replaces the machine, the reels and the floor cords. It's VERY cost competitive.

    Sure, you can use bungees and cheap machines. There has always been a way to get a piste set up for a club under $500, and often under $350 if you know how to do it. They aren't competing with that. They are competing with an entry level SG or Favero machine and a pair of Uhlmnann or Favero reels, which is a very common club set up. If it really works the way they say it works, it will be the only sensible purchase for a club that typically buys reels and commercial machines.

    VSM has always been a bit in between. If you have Uhlmann/Favero reels, a decent sized, quality monitor, a typical "tower" or small PC, then the LP set up is a bit more, but it's wireless. If you run VSM on a cheapie notebook and bungees, then the LP is a lot more.
     
  17. DHCJr

    DHCJr Armorer

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2002
    Messages:
    5,481
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    There is an additional cost. The cost of $180 is for individual fencer packs. Who will buy them. If a visiting fencer comes to your club without one, can they fence? If a club fencer forgets there, will they be able to fence? Leon Paul will have a couple of 'locked fencer packs' and this removes any incentive to borrow a locked pack. These will not be lost only because someone wanted to borrow one. You will have fencers walk off with some, because they forgot also or they put them down SOMEWHERE.

    Unless you mark them extremely well and give them a huge incentive to return them, they WILL get lost.

    At local tournaments, we require a drivers license to borrow equipment. It is amazing to me that we have had driver license after everyone has gone and sometimes they returned the equipment, but forgot to get back their drivers license.

    It is harder, but not impossible to loose a reel or damage it. Before going the 'Reelless' route, plan very carefully how you will implement it.
     
  18. DangerMouse

    DangerMouse Podium

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2003
    Messages:
    3,304
    Location:
    Eugene, OR
    While these are going to be quite a bit more expensive than the system I've been thinking about if I start a private club, the portability and ease of setup for a nondedicated facility may be worth the extra cost.
     
  19. sdubinsky

    sdubinsky DE Bracket

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Messages:
    330
    A perhaps underrated advantage of wireless is that there's no reels to accidentally release halfway down the strip and then hit someone in the head. Much safer, especially if you have kids programs.
     
    Privateer likes this.
  20. jkormann

    jkormann Podium

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    3,259
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    SE PA
    I'm sure there will be shared wireless adaptors that are thrown between fencers, with unintended recipients between them.
     

Share This Page