Leon Paul Epee Barrel - strange size?

Discussion in 'Armory - Q&A' started by Stence, Jun 23, 2018.

  1. Stence

    Stence Made the Cut

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    I need to rewire a blade with one of LP's fancy titanium epee points, but the flat part of the barrel for my wrench is just a bit too small for the usual 6mm wrench and definitely too wide for the 5mm foil wrench. All my adjustable wrenches just slip around and I am afraid of stripping the sides of the barrel itself. Anyone dealt with this before and have any advice?

    I can attach pictures if anyone would like
     
  2. Goldgar

    Goldgar Podium

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    I don't know, but is it possible they're English?
     
  3. Stence

    Stence Made the Cut

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    How do you mean "English"? As in not using good ol American "Freedom Units" of measurement instead of metric like the rest of the world? I guess it is possible but it didn't even occur to me that LP wouldn't use metric. Can you think of an equivalent size wrench in American sizes that would fit between 5 and 6 mm?
     
  4. Zebra

    Zebra Podium

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    "Imperial" is the term you're looking for (along with a very small adjustable wrench you can keep in your strip bag).
     
  5. Stence

    Stence Made the Cut

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    I've tried the adjustable wrench but it keeps slipping off the sides and I'm afraid of stripping the barrel.
    I knew the term imperial, freedom units was just a joke, but thanks!
     
  6. EspadaMK

    EspadaMK Made the Cut

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    The size is either 5mm or 6mm, sorry can't remember which exactly. I will try to check later.
     
  7. St.Meow

    St.Meow Made the Cut

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    I have one and it might be a bit loose but I thought my 6mm wrench fit fine. If you want to adjust it securely, a pair of locking pliers will handle it fine.
     
  8. dcchew

    dcchew Podium

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    You probably have a barrel where the wrench flats may be slightly out of tolerance. I've seen this before with German made barrels. I have a small 4" (100mm) crescent wrench in my tool case when I run into this type of situation.

    As for stripping the threads in a LP titanium barrel, I seriously doubt this will ever happen. We're talk about titanium, one of the hardest metals.
     
  9. Stence

    Stence Made the Cut

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    Fair enough, I forgot how durable titanium is and have definitely seen stripped absolute barrels and didnt want to take the risk.

    As an update: I found a bit of glue residue around the bottom of the barrel so I put some glue thinner on it overnight and tried again this morning. While the 6mm wrench still didn't hold much of a grip on the flats, the adjustable wrench got the barrel off easily so I guess some blade glue got in the threads. I will look into a pair of locking pliers for these situations as this is definitely not the first time I have an LP barrel with the flats out of tolerance.

    Thanks all!
     
  10. SJCFU#2

    SJCFU#2 Podium

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    I've also seen this problem with some Leon Paul regular foil barrels (they may have had a bad production run at some point - IIRC when it came up here one of the Pauls (can't remember if it was Barry or Alex) took immediate steps to correct the problem).

    My solution is a small set of Vise Grips - once they're adjusted properly I find them less likely to slip than an adjustable wrench.
     
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  11. EldRick

    EldRick Podium

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    "We're talk about titanium, one of the hardest metals."
    Actually, no. Titanium is not as hard as hardened steel. Tungsten (often confused with Titanium) is appreciably harder than steel - perhaps the source of confusion.
     
  12. Fairfield_Fencing_Armory

    Fairfield_Fencing_Armory Made the Cut

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    I also use a open wrench whenever possible, but in those rare cases when the wrench doesn’t fit or there are no flats, I use a pair of vice grips, being careful to grasp securely on the flats or low on the barrel where the flats would be.
    I like to keep the shiny new look of the barrel for aesthetics and as a point of professional pride, but if I’m forced to do it, I don't think it matters much if I scratch up the barrel, as long as I don’t do anything that would interfere with the travel of the point.
     
  13. dcchew

    dcchew Podium

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    I stand corrected. Titanium is still stronger than most steels and much lighter. I've never had to replace a LP titanium barrel because it got bent out of shape or had the nicks in the slots.

    When I first ran into this issue about my 6mm open end wrench not fitting an epee barrel, I also went and measured all of my various wrenches too. Most were fairly accurate, but 2 had the outer corners a hair undersized. So, I took a small flat file and chamfered the corners just a touch.

    So, I guess it's a good practice to check your tools too.

    If you have problems with loosening or tightening a epee barrel, take a old screwdriver and put it through the slots. I usually don't recommend this approach except for in an emergency. People tend to use their best jeweler's screwdrivers doing this and it can bend the screwdriver shaft.

    Another tip, another reason I carry a 4" (100mm) crescent wrench with me is that I use it to grip the blade just below the barrel. It's quicker than using a small set of vise grip. I've seen far too many cheap blades that have been held at the grip and twisted into a corkscrew. Gotta love a kid's Dad trying to fix a loose foil barrel.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
  14. EspadaMK

    EspadaMK Made the Cut

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    Just to clarify the Ti/Steel hardness thing, Titanianium has a hardness of 6 on the Mohs scale, standard steel is between 4 and 4.5, hardened steel is 7-8 so harder that Ti but as dc correctly points out Ti is significantly lighter. Just for reference Tungsten is 7.5, and Tungsten Carbide 8,5 but these are significantly heavier. Aluminium only achieves 2.5.

    So basically Ti has a similar strength to Steel but a superior strength to weight ratio.
     
  15. Mergs

    Mergs Podium

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    IIRC, the titanium referrers to the TiO coating - don't think that it is the base material. As for the wrench issue, this is why I have a 5.5mm combination wrench as a part of my kit!
     
  16. DHCJr

    DHCJr Armorer

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    7/32", which is slightly bigger than a 5.5 mm mentioned earlier. This brings up a couple of points. First, I still carry a 7/32" Allen T-wrench as the old Santelli pommels used that. Also, if anyone has tried to mix and match Leon Paul Foil/Sabre body cords and connectors with copies. Copies are made to metric sizes, while Leon Paul did not retool their fabrication when Great Britain went metric, so they are slightly off.

    I could just take a 5.5 mm Allen wrench as I have a set of metric to use & leave the 7/32" at home when I encounter a Santelli, but it would be slightly too small and might slip.
     
  17. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    Yup. That's why I keep the Craftmen.
     
  18. Alfred Tay

    Alfred Tay Rookie

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    The LP Ti tips are 6mm we have used them without any issues. Perhaps it is your wrench that is off calibration :)
     
  19. EldRick

    EldRick Podium

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    The titanium barrels are indeed made of titanium (alloy). That's why they weigh 2g less than LPs steel points.
     

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