JMF Team Aix Yesterday

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by pillow, Jan 29, 2018.

  1. pillow

    pillow Podium

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    Well fought, seesaw bout against France in the semis. We got back to 44-44 with Nick fencing cleanup. Final score was 45-44 France, but of course it was controversial. Always exciting to see Greg run onto the piste, foaming at the mouth (Misha was with him as well) in a vain attempt to reverse the final call. Tough to tell from the video, but either Nick started first and should have had his attack ruled off target, or the French fencer riposted and won the point, or the French fencer started first and won the point. Check out the video.
     
  2. catwood1

    catwood1 is a Verified Fencing Expertcatwood1 Podium

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    It'd be significantly easier to check out the video with.. ya know.. the video...
     
  3. pillow

    pillow Podium

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  4. catwood1

    catwood1 is a Verified Fencing Expertcatwood1 Podium

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    Thanks!

    And holy cow does that call look wrong to me...
     
  5. ReadyFence

    ReadyFence Podium

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    If it was cadet saber and Greg was Italian, he could have gotten touches and even the bout decision reversed...
     
  6. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    At 1/4 speed (not officially allowed but instructive): France's attack "No", Nick's attack "No", France's remise valid then Nick's remised off-target. Wasn't the t.42.3.e "If the fencers’ scores are equal at the end of the match, for the decisive touch, the Referee must use the video refereeing before even giving his decision, except in the case specified in article t.42.3.d." mandatory? Also - Greg put his hand on the ref. Opinions?
     
  7. keropie

    keropie Podium

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    Opinion: there's no way you should make THAT call without video. Ignoring the whole 44-44 mandatory video check.
     
  8. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    t.42.3.d. "At all weapons and at any time, the Referee may consult his monitor before making a decision." and 3.f "The video consultant may at any time request that the Referee use the video refereeing."
     
  9. pillow

    pillow Podium

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    OK, but what's the "correct call" as we see it on the recording without benefit of having been there?
     
  10. neevel

    neevel Armorer

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    1/4 speed should be just fine. The Handbook of Specifications for video states that the standard slow motion replay should be between 25 and 30% speed, and t.62.1 states "The referee can choose to review the action in real time or in slow motion, at any speed he wishes." (FIE rule numbers, btw., US equivalent is t.42.3.c)
    .
     
  11. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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  12. keropie

    keropie Podium

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    For me, watching at 25% speed and freezing the action, it's still somewhat philosophical. The initial thrust of Nick's action doesn't immediately turn the light on, but there's no separate extension; the light turns on as his extension continues. Personally, based on my own interpretation of when the attack has been made, I have Attack from the right, no; counter from the left, yes; remise from the right, off target. Touch left.

    But, I wasn't there, and at 25% + Freeze Frame, some of this is questionable information.
     
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  13. catwood1

    catwood1 is a Verified Fencing Expertcatwood1 Podium

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    ... I was talking about the final point.
     
  14. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    So are we.
     
  15. catwood1

    catwood1 is a Verified Fencing Expertcatwood1 Podium

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    You think the final point is attack no, attack no, remise, remise?
     
  16. keropie

    keropie Podium

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    For me, I have attack from right, no; attack from left, yes; remise from right, off target. I don't think I'd parse anything from left before that.
     
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  17. catwood1

    catwood1 is a Verified Fencing Expertcatwood1 Podium

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    I think that calling right attack no because of a, I guess, lateness of his light is unbelievable nit picky. And by that, I mean wrong. The call on the strip was attack left. I think that's wrong too, but I can see where it's coming from.
     
  18. keropie

    keropie Podium

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    Ok. Sure. It's nit-picky. But the reason the light is late (imo) is because his attack doesn't hit, and as he's relaxing the position and the blade angle changes, the tip closes and it goes off. One of the (many) reasons I dislike the current foil timing is that it increases those results. But from the video, that's my interpretation of what happened, and that's just 'attack, no.'

    Wasn't there, sound, 1/4 speed, yadda yadda yadda, but that's the way I see it. And I don't see attack from the left, personally.
     
  19. catwood1

    catwood1 is a Verified Fencing Expertcatwood1 Podium

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    Watching it in real time, it just doesn't look like the light is late. In real time, does it look late to you?
     
  20. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    No response - especially in light of the RC's "Notice to USA Fencing Coaches"?
     

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