Interesting grip question

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by Purple Fencer, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    Asked of me over the weekend...

    Would a pommel like the Melting Pommel or Palmel be allowed on an Italian epee grip??

    The overall grip length would not be an issue, but I COULD see someone thinking the quillions might pose an issue.
     
  2. Stormbringer

    Stormbringer DE Bracket

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    The Italian is, legally speaking, an orthopedic grip (and, as such, must be held with the thumb within 2 cm of the guard), while the Palmel and Melting Pommel are specifically designed to assist in posting (where, barring some really strange hand geometry, the thumb necessarily wouldn't be within 2 cm of the guard).

    So, what (aside from satisfying one's sense of aesthetics) would be the point in using an essentially-orthopedic pommel on a grip where one cannot (legally) post? o_O
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  3. Zebra

    Zebra DE Bracket

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    I think the original question was whether such a grip would be legal, regardless of how you hold it. I would interpret it as not conforming, because it would not limit the fencer to a single position for the hand on the grip: (see m.4.6.a)
     
  4. K O'N

    K O'N Podium

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    No orthopedic grip is legal "regardless of how you hold it." The rules specify where your thumb must land. A grip can be legal for someone with large hands, but illegal for someone with small hands.

    As you point out, though, a grip can be inherently illegal, and I would expect an Italian with a pommel intended to allow posting to be ruled illegal.
     
  5. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    Perhaps to increase strength by making the pommel long enough that it could be pressed against the forearm?
     
  6. Zebra

    Zebra DE Bracket

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    That's why I had a comma in the original post. Such a weapon could be failed as soon as it is presented for testing, not just once the fencer starts using it by gripping the pommel.
     
  7. ShortFoot

    ShortFoot DE Bracket

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    Doesn't it all hinge on whether the person who originally posed the question had in mind that the wrist strap would be used? If you're using a strap, adding the pommel shouldn't make the grip illegal. (If anything, a fat pommel will help fix the grip in one position even more securely.) And if you're not using the strap, it's already illegal even before you add the pommel.

    Seems to me.
     
  8. Goldgar

    Goldgar Podium

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    I don't follow you. Are you saying an Italian grip is illegal without a wrist strap? I assure you that's not true.
     
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  9. ShortFoot

    ShortFoot DE Bracket

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    Whoops! If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I got that in my head at some point, and I think my reasoning was that without the strap one has a grip that (a) has protrusions and (b) fails to fix the hand in one position (and permits pommeling).

    OK, so I'm confused about why a strapless Italian would be legal (and yet the Gardere is illegal?), but apologies for injecting my confusion into the conversation.
     

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