Oh, I really agree: what you are calling "foil" is just not fencing. Go out from your sect, come in the real world, with real people: ask them! Try to ask anyone, but a non-fencer (or a epeist...!): who is right (see the example below)... without any rules, just intuition. In fact, the answer is obvious: 10cm of the blade in the belly, then, afterward, reaction! What you are calling "foil" is just ridiculous, that's a joke, and everybody is laughting (No... in fact, people rather look something else, understandable, less ridicolous or more funny). World Championships : TORUN Cadet Men’s Foil Individual 2019 : Video (42min05sec) - Case n°17 The referee has said : Attack from right. Article t83-2-a : "The simple attack, direct or indirect, is correctly executed when the straightening of the arm, the point threatening the valid target, precedes the initiation of the lunge or the flèche." Fencer on the left : straightening + threatening + lunge = Attack Fencer on the right : no straightening + no threatening + no lunge = no Attack Fencer on the right has'nt any priority when he was hitted : t83-2-d "Actions, simple or compound, steps or feints which are executed with a bent arm, are not considered as attacks but as preparations, laying themselves open to the initiation of the offensive or defensive/offensive action of the opponent" Fencer on the right has 10cm of the blade in the belly, then, afterward, he has reacted (counter attack). The referee has broken the rules.