Foreign Fencer Representing USA

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by lovethemvols, Oct 13, 2018.

  1. lovethemvols

    lovethemvols Made the Cut

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    Can someone please clarify the rules for foreign fencers representing USA in World Cups? The rules book notes that the fencer must have a passport in possession at the entry deadline. I recall, though I can not seem to locate in the rules book, that there is a waiting period of 3 years after representing another country.
    I bring this up because there is a current Polish fencer now representing USA months after fencing for Poland at the world championships. Is anyone aware of the circumstances around this? Did she marry an American and does this make her immediately eligible for a US passport?
     
  2. InFerrumVeritas

    InFerrumVeritas DE Bracket

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    Representing the USA at a world level? Or just changed the lettering on her lame?
     
  3. ReadyFence

    ReadyFence Podium

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    Representing the US, dual citizenship.
     
  4. DHCJr

    DHCJr Armorer

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    Which rule book did you look in? That may sound like a strange question, but it is not as there are 3 main rule books and a lot of auxiliary ones for the FIE. What you need to do it look at the Statutes http://static.fie.org/uploads/19/99446-FIE Statutes ang.pdf You should look at 9.2.2.a.

    But I am afraid that is not the last word. Look at the Administrative rules http://static.fie.org/uploads/19/97790-ADMINISTRATIVE RULES-ANG.pdf for 1.4 where you can see how the 3 year rule can be waived.

    US Fencing has the same problem. If someone looked at a piste at a local competition and said it was too short, too skinny, not enough run-off and not enough distance from the scoring table, I would ask the same question.
     
  5. ReadyFence

    ReadyFence Podium

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    And based on 1.4.3, it looks like as long as everybody is on board, the FIE probably will be too.
     
  6. Montoya

    Montoya DE Bracket

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    Don't know what it takes to get Poland to release her. However marrying an American does not make you immediately eligible for US citizenship. You are immediately eligible for a green card and after three years you can apply for citizenship.
     
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  7. NKFA

    NKFA Made the Cut

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    Also, for the record. USA does not recognize dual citizenship. They may, however, tolerate it.
     
  8. Montoya

    Montoya DE Bracket

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    Presumably not marriage that got her dual citizenship. The fencer in question announced her engagement at the Rio Olympics. Not sure when she got married, but not long ago to qualify her for US citizenship.
     
  9. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    Not sure about that. We have a Y14 kid at my club who is dual Denmark/US. Wears a lame with "DEN" locally, but had to get a "USA" one for his first SN last year.

    Had a kid at a scholastic last week who asked about a country mask....half US and half Germany (dual citizen). Don't know how that'd fly at nationals.
     
  10. jdude97

    jdude97 Podium

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    I think NKFA is talking in reference to the US State Dept official policy, not the policies of any fencing bodies.
     
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  11. NKFA

    NKFA Made the Cut

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    Yes I was. US State Dept official immigration stance. Not sure how fencing bodies handle that!
     
  12. jjefferies

    jjefferies Podium

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    Does seem a minor issue. But I remember a year ago at East Bay Fencers when some of their youngsters were comparing notes. Think there were several, 3 or 4, who had dual citizenship. Of course this is the SF Bay Area and close by UCB.
     
  13. lovethemvols

    lovethemvols Made the Cut

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    Thanks for the feedback. Seems like as long as the fencer is married to an American it is all kosher. Just a bit of a shame that a fencer who has fenced in the Olympics (more than once and successfully I believe) and in the most recent world championships just a few months ago for another country will most likely take one of the four spots for the 2020 team. Hurts the chances of several young American fencers who have worked hard for many years with dreams of making the team. This is just my personal opinion as I am sure others will disagree.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2018
  14. KD5MDK

    KD5MDK Moderator

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    They could try earning more points to prevent that. If someone wants to be an American, I endorse them doing that unless there’s something objectionable about them.
     
  15. ReadyFence

    ReadyFence Podium

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    The math will be difficult for several young contenders in women’s saber, both in college and freshly graduated.
     
  16. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    Consult your local rabbi.:p
     
  17. Diesel

    Diesel Made the Cut

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    I believe this depends on the age group. The USA seems flexible about this up to Cadet. There was a kid who fenced for another country at the cadet world champs and then fenced in cadet at JOs. Apparently this starts being a problem when you fence Junior international which requires an FIE license.
     
  18. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    Fifth-ranked as of this typing, meaning Monika would be the team reserve. Depends on Kamali's results.
     
  19. lovethemvols

    lovethemvols Made the Cut

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    I am sorry but your first sentence is a bit silly. I guess you have no problem with her using her points earned while fencing for Poland counting towards her qualifying for one of the 12 spots for the upcoming world cups.
    How exactly do the young Americans earn more points to prevent that? Points earned to date since marrying an American are not enough to qualify for one of the spots. I find that objectionable!!! I have no problem with her fencing for USA but she needs to earn the points while doing so. Not prior.
     
  20. sdubinsky

    sdubinsky DE Bracket

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    American fencers who have or qualify for second citizenships do more or less the exact same thing on a regular basis, it's a bit hypocritical to complain when someone does it to us.
     
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