[FOIL] Grips and Points

Discussion in 'Armory - Q&A' started by usuChakra, Feb 5, 2007.

  1. usuChakra

    usuChakra Rookie

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    What is the difference between a German, V2A, and French Point?

    What is the difference between all these grips?

    I know the obvious ones like Pistol vs French. But Belgian and Spanish and Viscounti, German, Russian, Chinese...?

    Just by looking at pictures i can't tell the major difference.

    Anyone have experience with all of them?
     
  2. Mitchell

    Mitchell is a Verified Fencing ExpertMitchell hi Staff Member

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    german points are thicker and are typically considered to be better engineered. V2As are higher quality german points. french points are thinner and tend to crack easier.

    there are so many different grips, it would be tedious to articulate the differences. look at pictures and try some out at an event to get a feel for yourself.
     
  3. usuChakra

    usuChakra Rookie

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    So if offered the option, assuming that all are equal price, take the V2A point?
     
  4. mrbiggs

    mrbiggs Podium

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    They aren't equal pprive, though, at all. ;)

    German points are (I think) the most popular. If you want a cheaper but not quite as good option, go French. If you want to spend a lot of money, get the V2A.

    But whatever you choose, stick with it. I know from personal experience that having more than one type of point is very very confusing if you don't have a lot of experience.
     
  5. DHCJr

    DHCJr Armorer

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    If you go with the German go with the new barrel. The German steel is usually softer thus smoother. The older German barrels, even the V2A, have the screws stick out. They get smashed and you can no longer get them out easily.
     
  6. Joe biebel

    Joe biebel Podium

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    I'm only going to comment on points. Pistol grip handles are a very personal (as in you need to hold and try it) kind of thing. The French Point and the German point have different features and benefits, however, if you want to have a point that is "trouble free" for approximately the same price, go English as in LP. The most recent LP foil points are the most trouble free, low maintenance points I have ever seen. All ot he others have basic design flaws which can lead to a lot of armoring. If you are new to electric fencing and are not trying to match existing equipment, go LP.
     
  7. Beloit Fencer of Old

    Beloit Fencer of Old Rookie

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    I have not tried the LP points, so if you're so inclined, and Joe says to do it, by all means, do it.

    With regard to the German points with the screws sticking out, I always place a small strip of tape over the screws before taping the rest of the tip. That way, the screws don't get mashed (or, haven't yet!), and they're easier to maintain.

    Regardless of the tip you choose, you will have to compensate for one drawback or another. If you belong to a club, and you might have to borrow parts from a clubmate at some point, you may want to poll these folks to see what they use.
     
  8. brtech

    brtech Podium

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    I've seen this and never understood the practice. All foil points are taped, all the way around the barrel, covering the screws completely. What this does is cover the screws with one more layer of tape, but it doesn't cover the rest of the barrel with another layer of tape.

    Generally speaking, more layers of tape is better (more protection). The limit is usually that too much tape makes the tip fat enough that the foil test weight hangs up on the tape and you get a yellow card.

    The screws are at the widest part of the barrel. If it's going to stick on the weight, it's going to be at that part.

    What does the little hunk of tape do that another 1/2 turn of tape on the whole barrel wouldn't do?
     
  9. DHCJr

    DHCJr Armorer

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    First it would have to be a full turn not a 1/2 to get the same protection. Also if one turn is better why not 2 or 3? You answered this question. If you just put a little separate piece they don't try and put more.

    Let us take an example from the auto industry. They add rubber pieces only on certain areas that stick out. Why not every place? Why do we take out dents in masks, because even when a hit will contact the highest point it will slide off into a lower point. Yes the screws stick out further but in adding only to the screws you are making the low points more pronounced so the hits will tend to move to those area more readily. If you were just to tape over the whole barrel the low points would be more in line thus not encouraging the movement away from the screws.

    You can believe this or trust the results. It works.
     
  10. brtech

    brtech Podium

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    Well, 1/2 and a little. Start at a screw, go half way around, cover the screw on the other side, stop. I always start taping just covering a screw. I know how much tape to cut off to go twice around. With the tip tape I use, that is a good coverage without weight hang up.

    I suspect it has a lot more to do with cutting costs than anything else, but if they really do it because of crash resistance, who am I to argue.

    Uh, I don't believe it, but if you say so....

    Have you run tests on that? Simulations?

    Just kidding. One of the things I like about armory is that there is often NOT one right way to do something.
     
  11. DHCJr

    DHCJr Armorer

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    Amen to that!

    I have seen the affects and it does appear to work better than extra tape. I see more smashed screws on blades with extra tape then those with just the taping that Beloit Fencer of Old described. I guessed at the reason, so I go by the results.

    Fencers by and large are almost as lazy as Armorers so they are always as careful as you are, so forcing them to cut off a small piece achieves the results without all the extra tape.
     
  12. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    I would submit that some of them are lazier....you don't need an armorer to retape a foil blade...
     

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