Foil Attack distance

Discussion in 'Rules and Referee Questions' started by jkormann, Oct 28, 2018.

  1. Allen Evans

    Allen Evans Podium

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    There is an argument for that, but so few coaches ever leave that environment, just like we see in many of the threads on calling priority..."Give me a rule!"

    (And I might argue that, in fact, you DON'T have to start like that, at least in coaching).
     
  2. Strytllr

    Strytllr DE Bracket

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    I don't disagree with your assessment of some coaches, but i don't think that's true of all. And i've rarely met a beginner who was capable of understanding the amazing fluidity of ROW from the very beginning. i HAVE met a few...and what an awesome experience that's been. but that's the rarity...
     
  3. tbryan

    tbryan Podium

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    Note that this question isn't quite what you're asking. You're not really asking about an attack: you're asking about a point-in-line. For the number of times competitive fencers actually score with a point-in-line, it seems to come up really often on fencing.net. :)

    I don't really think about it as losing priority. Once the attack is done, that action is over. So, my question is what's next? I think about it as "after the end of the initial attack, if the attacker failed to hit, what does the defender need to do to take priority?" In particular, it's important to remember that actions have a context.

    Look at my example #1 again. FoR makes an attack, and FoL moved backward just enough to make him miss. If FoR preplans it, FoR can often start a redoublement before FoL can change the direction and start moving forward. But as long as FoL didn't take extra steps and didn't delay in starting his attack, we still call the touch for FoL. Because of the context, we give FoL a window of time to "turn the corner", change direction, and start his attack.

    Example #3 feels similar to me. When FoR makes an attack, he's making an attack, not trying to establish point-in-line. Once the attack is done, FoL has a (small) window where he can establish priority by starting an attack. If he does not, then FoR has time to establish a point-in-line before FoL starts the attack. Makes sense to me. :D

    Note that I don't have any strong philosophical preferences either way about this call. It's the call I would currently expect in those situations, and it's generally the call that I'd make. Why? As Greg Dilworth used to say, "That's the convention." What you're arguing for (short attacks can immediately become a point-in-line) might result in a good and balanced game, too, but that's just not the current convention as far as I can tell.

    Here's an argument for looking at the current convention as a positive. My example #3 is what they often call a "get-away-go," and a good get-away-go in foil is generally a fast and dynamic action. I think that a get-away-go is hard enough to pull off in foil as it is. It's easy for FoL to mess up on the "get away" part. FoL may not get away and get hit on the initial attack, or he may overbalance and get hit on the remise or to take too long / too many steps to gain the immediate attack. On the other side, after FoR's attack is over, he is in a good position to defend. It's relatively easy for FoR to find a parry or to squirm and make it hard for FoL to turn on a light. Really, we don't yet another way (point-in-line after a short attack) to slow this action down or for this action to go against FoL.
     
  4. Allen Evans

    Allen Evans Podium

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    If people bought the right kind of shoes, I'm sure it would solve their point in line problems.
     
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  5. acarter

    acarter Made the Cut

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    Ever since they discontinued the 2008 adistars, I haven't been able to get point in line. Makes perfect sense now :)
     
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