Flecheing confusion

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by Mr. Wizard, Feb 24, 2009.

  1. Mr. Wizard

    Mr. Wizard Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    Does anybody know why flecheing is banned in sabre? and if its for right-of-way rules, why isnt it banned in foil as well?
     
  2. seven6ty

    seven6ty Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,526
    Likes Received:
    92
    Because saber was moving too quickly, and only in one direction. It looks much better now. :rolleyes:
     
  3. PatrickPFC

    PatrickPFC Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2008
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    1
    I was under the impression that flecheing wasn't banned in saber, but crossing your back foot in front of your front foot. As long as the touch is scored before the crossing of the feet i thought you were ok, am i wrong?
     
  4. seven6ty

    seven6ty Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,526
    Likes Received:
    92
    Technically, yes. I don't see many people fleche without crossing their feet though.
     
  5. Mr. Wizard

    Mr. Wizard Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    actually i think you are right. this might be a mix-up of terms on my part, because i refer to whenever your back foot crosses over your front foot as flecheing, srry
     
  6. catwood1

    catwood1 Podium

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,415
    Likes Received:
    159
    You cannot let the entirety of your back foot pass the entirety of your front foot in an offensive action.
     
  7. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Podium

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2004
    Messages:
    2,223
    Likes Received:
    303
    Same reason crazy people have to wear straight-jackets and normal people don't.
     
  8. Goldgar

    Goldgar Podium

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Messages:
    2,572
    Likes Received:
    151
    Yes, you're wrong. See t.75(b)(3): "The flèche and any forward movement in which the rear foot completely passes the front foot is forbidden." Note that in a well-executed flèche, the back foot only crosses after the touch is landed. You are not allowed to score when the same action that lands the touch results in the crossover.

    You *can* do an action very similar to a flèche, but ensure that you land on the front foot and *then* cross in a second step. I'm hearing this footwork being called a "sabre flèche" these days.
     
  9. catwood1

    catwood1 Podium

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,415
    Likes Received:
    159
    HURRAY FLUNGING!
     
  10. Craig

    Craig Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 1999
    Messages:
    6,435
    Likes Received:
    457
    Mainly due to the fact that with electric sabre it became a game of who ran forward first and there was almost no room for defense.

    Craig
     
  11. Nolano

    Nolano Rookie

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    67
    Ah yes. Muuuuuch different than now:rolleyes:
     
  12. RITFencing

    RITFencing Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    4,559
    Likes Received:
    395
    In general, I agree that this is the idea, however I think it is not so much the back foot landing as the end of the initial acceleration; it's just that in most fleches, that acceleration is done around the time the back foot lands.
     
  13. KD5MDK

    KD5MDK Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    13,294
    Likes Received:
    636
    Yes




    ..
     
  14. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2001
    Messages:
    15,958
    Likes Received:
    522
    Disagree there....watch the 84 Olympics and you hear/see 2 things...

    1) One fencer running hell-bent-for-leather down the strip...the other retreating just as fast.

    and

    2) Peter Bouchard calling out "Halt....2 meters" when they reached the box so many times he started running out of ways to say it.

    The ability to fleche in sabre made it a train wreck...removing the crossover (and thus, the fleche) at LEAST forced people to TRY to slap steel.

    If the blades could be made afforadbly that could isolate the edge, you'd see more blade actions, especially in mens sabre at the top levels....the ladies actually fence more (because a lot of the older sabeurs in Athens were transplanted from foil...so they kept doing foil actions, and foil actions were needed to counter them...)
     
  15. KD5MDK

    KD5MDK Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    13,294
    Likes Received:
    636
    I see fewer blade actions in WS and much more intense tempo games. I may not have a strong handle on the whole of sabre, but that's definitely the impression I get.
     
  16. seven6ty

    seven6ty Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,526
    Likes Received:
    92
    Eh, not necessarily. I've heard that the touch should land as your back foot hits the ground... But not crossing. I think anyone trying to hit before their back foot passes their front will land up on their face. Even using the example of hitting as your back foot hits the ground, I don't necessarily believe in, as it requires quite a long first step, and I think that you'll have much better balance and control, if you use a series of short, quick steps in your flesche, requiring your feet to hit the ground slightly sooner than the first example I pointed out.
     
  17. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2001
    Messages:
    15,958
    Likes Received:
    522
    I think there are more in womens than mens, but the 2 may be getting closer...at least that's what I see.
     
  18. edew

    edew Podium

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2000
    Messages:
    9,755
    Likes Received:
    342
    Except it wasn't hell-bent. It was a casual jog, which the opponent did a casual backpedal jog. It made the whole thing even more egregiously pathetic.
     
  19. KD5MDK

    KD5MDK Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    13,294
    Likes Received:
    636
    Video plz?
     
  20. Goldgar

    Goldgar Podium

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Messages:
    2,572
    Likes Received:
    151
    More specifically, the rule book used to say that in a simple attack with flèche, to be considered correct, the touch must arrive no later than the back foot hitting the ground. But that is the bare minimum for "correctness". To be a *good* fleche, it ought to hit before the back foot crosses.

    I think you must not have seen any good fleches.

    Now you've completely lost me, as a flèche doesn't consist of a "series" of steps at all. A flèche is a simple footwork action consisting of a launch and a landing. Everything else is either preparation or follow-through.
     

Share This Page