FIE Congress - Discussion

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by Craig, Nov 27, 2013.

  1. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    In proposal 6 by the BFF - concerning mask wires for foil, a length measure is given with tolerances! They are quite large, but a tolerance is actually stated.

    Progress.


    PeterG
     
  2. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    Proposal #1 of the German Fencing Federation is to ban the visor mask in all weapons. All relevant bodies are in favor. I guess that they will consolidate some proposals.


    PeterG
     
  3. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    The 2nd proposal by the Hungarian Fencing Federation is as follows:

    The interesting thing here is that the various relevant bodies have differing opinions, and those can not be reconciled - someone will lose on this score.

    EDIT: this also applies to proposal #5 from the Hungarians, concerning passivity/NC - the Hungarians use both terms in their proposal. There are irreconcilable differences between the opinions of the various relevant bodies, and those can not be summarized as in favor/not in favor. Instead, those various relevant bodies want to endorse several different rules concerning this. This is to deal with technical rules 87.5.

    EDIT2: The Hungarians have several proposals to deal with this. The relevant bodies have opinions that are all over the place.

    EDIT3: Proposals #9-15 from the Hungarians are not listed in the document. There is a jump from proposal 8 to #16.


    PeterG
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  4. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    Proposal #17 from the Hungarians is quite something. They want to revisit a whole lot of stuff WRT foil scoring in one fell Swoop, which is suggested to be studied by some commission and then the as-of-yet-not-stated modifications should be tested in three FIE competitions.

    And the various relevant bodies are in favor, wholly or with some comments!


    PeterG
     
  5. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    Anyone want to buy a barely-used visor mask? ;)
     
  6. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    Proposal #1 from the Iranian Fencing Federation deals with Zonal Championships, and the gist of it is that qualification rules should be applied the same way in the same situation at different competitions, and that ranking rules should not give perverse incentives.

    Seems reasonable, and the various relevant bodies are by and large on board with the Iranian proposal.

    Their proposal #2 deals with lateral boundaries, so expect that there will be consolidation of proposals here also.

    Their proposal #3 is to correct a simple typo WRT straightening blades against the piste. IMNSHO, the fact that they could find that sort of thing shows shoddy proofreading on the part of FIE. All relevant bodies are in favor, without reservation. That was a howler!
    Proposal #4 is more of the same, but regarding deliberate hit not on opponent.


    PeterG
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  7. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    Can someone also put in a proposal that the Iranians effing suck it up and actually FENCE an opponent from Israel instead of walking out like a petulant 5-year old??
     
  8. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    Several proposals, from different federations, deal with the correct bout order in poules if there are at least 2 fencers from the same country in one poule.

    At first glance, the suggested orderings seem significantly different, so there will be a bit of discussion on this topic.


    PeterG
     
  9. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    Proposal #1 from the Russians deal with the duration of sabre bouts.

    They want to bring back the 18 m effective piste length for sabre, but the relevant bodies are universally against that.

    Strange thing to revert to, IMO.

    PeterG
     
  10. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    Proposal #5 from the Russians is to change the sabre blocking time to 180 (+-10) ms.

    The responses from the various relevant bodies are all over the place, with the Rules commission not in favor and the refereeing commission in favor, but only after testing.


    The Russians are fielding a lot of proposals, but no other federation/commission has such a high rate of "not in favor" responses from the various relevant bodies.


    PeterG
     
  11. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    The US Federation wants to tinker with the crossover rule in sabre, but the relevant bodies are not in favor with that.

    The same goes for the US. proposal on non-combativity - it is expressly noted by the Rules commission that proposals #5-6 from the Hungarians deal with this topic.

    I have now reached the last page in the document listing all proposals for rules!

    PeterG
     
  12. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    There is no such proposal from anyone. Considering that this is already a black-cardable offence, I do not see what more can be done. Are you going to drag the Iranian onto the piste?

    I have a problem with punishing individual athletes for what their govt. has decided, and over which the athlete has no control. Sure, black card them, but the offence is less than all other group 4 offences, IMO.

    What if a rule along those lines would have been in place during the 1980 Olympics - should all the competitiors from the boycotting US. team be punished in some way?


    PeterG
     
  13. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    Youbetcha!


    Other federations are also thinking about this.

    PeterG
     
  14. jkormann

    jkormann Podium

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    They just didn't show up for the Olys.

    Edit: Thanks for parsing through all of that!
     
  15. neevel

    neevel Armorer

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    Rules Commission proposal #2 gets rid of the penalty for "simple" corps-a-corps in foil and sabre, and would make treatment of CaC the same as epee for all 3 weapons (i.e., halt but no card for CaC, a card only if there is jostling).
     
  16. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    Hmm. Am I seeing a pattern?

    Perhaps it is not only in the US that referees are in favor of anything which might shorten their days... ;)
     
  17. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    I'd rather just have the Iranians (more accurately, their government) grow up a little and hit the piste instead of the road.

    Kinda hard to portray yourself as such a bad-ass warrior country when you don't have the balls to suit up against someone just because you don't like them.

    If that had happened at Lake Placid in 1980, we wouldn't have the Miracle on Ice.

    As for the Moscow Games...you have to show up first before you can refuse to compete once you get there.
     
  18. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    govt.-mandated behavior should, IMO, be addressed by other govts/politicians. The central mission of FIE is to control fencing, not further any one political will outside of fencing.

    You are aware that once the cow is out of the barn, it is very simple for a rule-making body that does not have the interests of US. athletes at heart to get around the little thing of attending a competition vs. not even doing that? Why cede the high ground?

    What you are wanting is for the Iranian athletes (of any sport) to act in direct defiance of national policy, and probably national law. I assume that you are not OK with non-Americans doing the same versus US. athletes. Even less with non-American bodies imposing sanctions on US. athletes that do not act in defiance of US. law.

    One more thing: who does it harm? The Iranian athlete gets a black card (or similar in other sport), and the Israeli athlete gets an easy win.


    PeterG
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  19. ChrisL

    ChrisL DE Bracket

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    They don't care about the conflict but they'll be punished when they get back if they don't walk out. Its not their fault its sport being politicized and fencing is far from the only sport that encounters this problem
     
  20. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    I DID specify it was their government I was referring to a couple of posts up.

    And Peter....not sending a team to an event is a lot different than sending a team and then refusing to fence someone from a SPECIFIC nation.
     

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