FIE Congress - Discussion

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by Craig, Nov 27, 2013.

  1. Craig

    Craig Administrator Staff Member

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    The FIE Congress starts on the 29th and will include decisions on where the 2014 Fencing World Championships will be held, qualification criteria for the 2016 Olympics as well as a number of votes on proposed rules changes.

    Proposals are all available on the FIE Letters page here: FIE Letters.
    Look for the Agenda for the 2013 Congress and accompanying documents.
     
  2. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    Here is the rules proposal document:
    http://www.fie.ch/download/letters/2013/info/11/en/14.1 prop. REGLEMENTS congres 2013 3L.pdf

    It is quite the thing - 170 pages. Granted, all of it is written in three languages, but that is still almost 60 pages of rules proposal. Quite a lot to digest.

    Maybe they should have a meta-rule, stating that only N number of proposals may be debated, so as to not overload the proceedings and create a situation in which there are an unmanageable number of changes to be done at any one time. If so, one would have to have some sort of primary mechanism, in which there is a quick vote on which proposals should be debated on in more detail, and the rest are tabled.


    That said, the following caught my eye. The 2nd proposal is as follows:
    As I understand this, the proposal states that those team events should be fenced with only DE, and that those teams that do not reach L16 shall be out of the competition after their first loss. That means that half of the teams will only fight one team match. That is not much fencing, given how much travel is involved. To make matters worse, a very large part of the matches in the first round are between wildly mismatched teams, making those matches not all that interesting, and the do not sharpen the skills all that much for either minnow or heavyweight.

    I am in favor of competition formats in which each competing team is guaranteed at least some (at a minimum 3) team matches, and that they should be chosen so that unequal matchups are avoided, if at all possible.


    PeterG
     
  3. downunder

    downunder is a Verified Fencing Expertdownunder Podium

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    Peter, this is how world cup team competitions work already.
     
  4. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    Insults directed at officials singled out as a Category 4 offence -with an automatic black card. This can be quite a shock, if enacted.

    PeterG
     
  5. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    Thanks for the info.


    PeterG
     
  6. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    So, the Heidemann-Lam bout has a direct consequence - this section is to be removed in its entirety.


    PeterG
     
  7. Allen Evans

    Allen Evans Podium

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    Alright! More changes to non-combativity rules!
     
  8. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    Proposal 16 stipulates that team bouts should be shortened in time to 2 minutes instead of 3, with everything else left the same. The opinions were as follows:

    Opinion of the Refereeing Commission: In favour but the tests should also be carried out at the
    Junior World Cups.
    Opinion of the PP Commission: In favour but needs to be tested during the Junior World
    Championships.
    Opinion of the Coaches Council: Not in favour.
    Opinion of the Executive Committee: This proposal should be submitted to the newly created
    working group so that tests can be carried out. Conclusions will then be provided to the
    Executive Committee, Commissions, Councils and to the 2014 Congress.

    I am not in favor.

    PeterG
     
  9. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    Proposal 17 stipulates that DE bouts in all three weapons should consist of 2 3-minute periods, and that the first period ends when either 3 minutes has passed, or that any one fencer has reached 8 points.

    Surprisingly to me, the opinions were mixed. I strongly disagree with this suggested change.
     
  10. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    Proposal 18 stipulates that poule bouts should be shortened to 2 minutes. Also, it is stated that this is going to be tried out during the Junior World Championships april 2014. I am not in favor, but some groups are so.

     
  11. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    Sam Cheris wants all underage fencers competing at an official FIE competition should be traveling with legal guardians, or someone with power of attorney. FIE is in favor of that, but with the modification that it is also OK if the underage fencer is traveling with someone who has gotten power-of-attorney status delegated to him.

    I think that this is best left to parents to decide.


    PeterG
     
  12. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    The Medical Commission is proposing to forbid Lexan masks in all three weapons, and the various commenting bodies are mostly in favor of that, with some hedging.

    I wonder what Inq will make of that.

    Now I have reached page #54 of the document - I hope someone else can start picking out the interesting stuff in the remainder of the rules proposal document.


    PeterG
     
  13. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    Fun? :)
     
  14. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    So, it becomes significantly less likely that non-combativity gets called. This is positive, IMO.

    PeterG
     
  15. mrbiggs

    mrbiggs Podium

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    I don't think this is a major change. Insulting an official directly is generally cardworthy.
     
  16. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    Proposal 1 from SEMI is about establishing a testing system, where individual items of products that are already homologated will be tested on a random basis. Should the test show that the items are substandard, then the manufacturer must pay for the test. The 2nd consecutive failed test leads to a short break in the homologization, and a failed test after that leads to a loss of homologization. The commenting bodies are by and large in favor.

    PeterG
     
  17. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    Yes, but does it result in black cards, by and large, now?


    PeterG
     
  18. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    The 3rd proposal from SEMI is quite badly worded, but the important part comes in the end. There it is suggested that non-Maraging blades for foil and epee should be forbidden at official FIE-competitions. No changes for sabre.

    I am now at page 88 in this paper, out of 170.

    PeterG
     
  19. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    This one might be due to me!

    A few years ago, I looked in detail at the rules text regarding how blades are to be fatigue tested WRT multi-cycle bending. As a mechanical engineer, I saw that the text was lacking in precision in several places. I also outlined several alternative wordings that would be unambiguous WRT the imprecisely worded parts of those rules. However, in order to find out which of those wordings was a good match to how the testing was actually done, I had to know exactly how the tests were being carried out, in detail.

    So, I saw the sentence “Plans of these two machines may be obtained, on demand, from the SEMI Commission.” . I then wrote Dos Santos about that, but he wanted me to explain why I wanted those plans, and wanted me to pay a significant sum. I did explain the motivation, but I got no further response.

    Now I see that the obtained-on-demand sentence is suggested to be deleted.

    That is also a way to deal with a question for information.


    PeterG
     
  20. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

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    The British Fencing Federation has a much better worded rules proposal for how the valid target area in sabre should be defined. The relevant bodies are in favor.

    Check it out, sabre fencers! (page 101)


    PeterG
     

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