FIE Congress 2018

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by downunder, Dec 8, 2018 at 4:07 AM.

  1. downunder

    downunder is a Verified Fencing Expertdownunder Podium

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    I'm in Paris for the FIE Congress. Quite a few big decisions to be made on changes to the rules and statutes, especially relating to the off-target light in foil, the fleche in sabre, 30% gender representation on commissions, and non-combativity.
    You can follow the results of the voting here:
     
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  2. ReadyFence

    ReadyFence Podium

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    Very interesting so far. No matter how many commissions are against eliminating the off target light in foil, it will be tested and possibly approved. Ditto with adding the flèche after the completion of the lunge in saber.

    Can someone clarify the use of the word “obligatory” with regard to the flèche in the saber test? Will each fencer be penalized somehow if they don’t perform it? And in our never ending quest to make fencing go faster, I noticed that the flèche will be grounds for automatic video review? Le sigh...

    And doesn’t everybody love the new NASCAR uniform advertising guidelines? Using Aldo’s lame as the example was cute, considering how ad-heavy the Italian uniforms already are. Nine ads per fencer- woo hoo! At least it appears to only apply to fencers having signed an individual sponsorship contract rather than a federation, so we shouldn’t see our seniors rocking Thorne and Nationwide on the strip (yet). And I thought Olga’s Red Bull trucker hat was annoying :D

    These meetings are always entertaining!
     
  3. Peach

    Peach Podium

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    Vet Worlds 2021 will be in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, USA
     
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  4. K O'N

    K O'N Podium

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    So NC red and black cards passed, NC was withdrawn, and way at the bottom two more NC proposals lurk, from Cuomo. Can someone point me to a brief description of each of these?
     
  5. ReadyFence

    ReadyFence Podium

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    So many jokes available- retirement communities, where old people go to die... but kidding aside, financially it will be GREAT for our vet teams, which I am always in favor of.
     
  6. Ancientepee

    Ancientepee Podium

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    It's a shame that the non-foul foil proposal was withdrawn rather then approved as a separate test event. It's probably our best chance for getting a fourth "weapon" added to fencing.
     
  7. mfp

    mfp Podium

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    Well, wonder how well DEs that go 3 minutes in the first period with 3 red cards for both fencers, followed by a minute break are going to go over with people.
     
  8. jdude97

    jdude97 Podium

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    Non-coms help the underdog. Double touches also help the underdog. Non-com with double red cards help the underdog. We need the "thinking" emoji on here.
     
  9. jdude97

    jdude97 Podium

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    Is withdrawn a euphemism for rejected? Or is every rule that isn't guaranteed to pass withdrawn to prevent the (perceived) embarrassment of failure?
     
  10. mfp

    mfp Podium

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    A link to full text of proposed rules as distributed to the Federations is in line 2 of the Google sheet in the original post.

    The two Cuomo proposals on NC and the proposal of the Refereeing commission on NC (that were all withdrawn) each involved assigning priority at the beginning of a bout or team match and varying from there.

    The NC rule proposal that was voted on and Passed was the one tagged as originating with the Athlete's Commission. Presumably including the modifications the other Commissions and Committees weighed in with.
     
  11. Peach

    Peach Podium

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    Hmm. . . not what I think of when I hear the name of Fort Lauderdale, which continues to be the spring break capital for college students, as long as Florida manages to stay above sea level and the well-known "Florida man" doesn't blow the place up. :) But yes, definitely more affordable. Stralsund, Germany was the other candidate, and a very nice place itself.
     
  12. Strytllr

    Strytllr DE Bracket

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    This new NC red card certainly will not help the underdog. I can completely see a leading fencer using this new version of NC to their advantage to get the trailing fencer penalized, stressed, and potentially black carded. Get one touch up and now i don't even have to score to win. woo...
     
  13. Zebra

    Zebra Podium

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    I thought Panama City (on the Panhandle) was.
     
  14. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    Ft. Lauderdale! Everyone can go visit Travis McGee aboard the 'Busted Flush'! :D
     
  15. jjefferies

    jjefferies Podium

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    This is confirmed and not just a proposal from USA Fencing? I really preferred Stalsund myself.
     
  16. ReadyFence

    ReadyFence Podium

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    Confirmed. Cadet and junior world 2021 will be in Egypt (they destroyed Plovdiv in the voting by almost 100).

    Apparently no one bid for senior worlds 2021. No one.
     
  17. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    What, not even Reno NV? ;)
     
  18. iktovian

    iktovian Made the Cut

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    I’m sure the nc changes are going to have an impact, especially in teams. Individuals are going to be different too but I’m not sure exactly how. Suppose you’re fencing someone who you don’t want to attack. If the scores are level you may decide to risk the black card, because you think you’ll be eliminated anyway if you attack. If you need ranking points from the competition (on the other hand) you may decide to attack even though you know it’s going to cost you the bout, because going out in the 8 (say) is better than a black card. If you’re not worried about their ranking you might keep it defensive and gamble that the cards fall in your favour. Maybe that’s a bit fanciful- I’m not sure.

    I think a lot is going to hang on whether nc ends up being called multiple times in the same period- that never happens now so I’m not sure what the game would look like if it did happen. Are referees really going to award three red cards for one period with no hits? That would be bizarre, although my reading of the rules is that they have to. They’d be calling halt for the end of the period and then getting the card out.

    I’m not convinced that this is going to make epee more interesting to watch. The new rules look to me like they’ll reward people who go every 59 seconds on the dot, which is not going to be fun for the people who think that good fencing equals lots of attacks. I’d expect to see people going to extra time on 6-6 after nine fifty-second blocks of nothing much happening.

    What do you guys think?
     
  19. Gav

    Gav is a Verified Fencing ExpertGav Moderator!!

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    Cuomo's proposal was essentially the one already on the table (iirc). Glad they were withdrawn. Doesn't mean they're dead though.

    I can't see the new rule standing without alteration. NoahZ suggested a 90s delay rather than 60s and I think that's a better compromise.

    FWIW: I did call for something similar to the rule that was accepted. Now that it's been agreed I'm unsure, I think my position has changed...
    I came up with an alternative where fencers where given a points penalty iff NC was called, with the penalty becoming increasingly severe - and persistent bout to bout. I also suggested we move the priority flip to the front of the bout. Remove the incentive for a staring match without preventing fencers from trying that tactic if they wanted (their ranking would tank instead).
     
  20. Gav

    Gav is a Verified Fencing ExpertGav Moderator!!

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    The BIG issue is that it's possible for a mutual elimination to occur.

    If that happens in a semi? What happens, does the other finalist get a walkover... What about in a final?
    Can you imagine this in an Olympic Final??

    Think it won't happen? Wrong. It will happen. There's a lot of hand waving about that.
    Also consider that this rule would be used if fencers agree to strike - and we've already seen that happen at least once. My guess is that fencing will be in the news at some point but this time (at least) no one died or ended up crying on the piste.

    I guess we'll have to see the rule in action before we can properly judge it.

    Another clock will have to be added to the scoring machines too. And we'll need a list of things that reset that clock.

    There's a lot of potential complexity to this that I don't think is well communicated.
     
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