Fastest moving objects in sport

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by C.J., Mar 20, 2004.

  1. C.J.

    C.J. Rookie

    Joined:
    May 13, 2003
    Messages:
    376
    Likes Received:
    6
    1. jai-alai ball
    2. Shuttlecock(badminton)
    3. Tip of fencing blade

    Here are some of my random thoughts:
    1. Does anyone have any idea what a jai-alai ball is?
    2. When they say "the tip of a fencing blade" are they referring to a foil, a saber, or an epee? Since the length of a foil differs from that of a saber, it think it matters physically.
    3. I think the tip of a fencing blade is the fast moving object an athlet in any sport has to deal with because it needs to travel a lot less distance to reach the opponent than a shuttlecock, or a tennis ball.(NASCAR is not a sport)
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2004
  2. eri

    eri Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2004
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    1
    Jai-Alai is like a very fast game of hand-ball. I think its popular in Latin/South American countries.

    http://www.fla-gaming.com/rules.htm

    And where did you find this info? Its interesting...
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2004
  3. Windsor

    Windsor Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    5
    whoa...considering tennis balls can be served at 125mph...just how fast are these things moving?!
     
  4. Artisan

    Artisan Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2002
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    53
    From:
    http://www.bsudailynews.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/09/16/3f66bbbdd9bd0


    "It's a good thing, too. According to the Guinness Book of World Records Jose Ramon Areitio of Newport, R.I., made Jai-Alai the fastest ball sport in the world when he threw a ball at 188 mph. That speed, by the way, is faster than Jeff Green's pole-winning speed at this year's Daytona 500. Randy Johnson, eat your heart out."
     
  5. DJ Flow

    DJ Flow Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2004
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    2
    I'd imagine that the muzzle velocity of a round leaving any standard target pistol / rifle has got us whipped by a pretty significant margin.
     
  6. Aeric

    Aeric Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    10
    I think he's referring to the speed of any land-based, non-firearm sport.

    I'd have to agree that fencing is pretty high up there.
     
  7. J.Harris

    J.Harris Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2004
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    5
    what about an ice hockey puck?
    Where did you get those three from? I find it hard to imagine a fencing blade moving faster than a cricket ball or pretty much any other raquet/ball sport.
     
  8. C.J.

    C.J. Rookie

    Joined:
    May 13, 2003
    Messages:
    376
    Likes Received:
    6
    I think, for tennis, the record is set by Andy Rodick of US of A, at 140 mph.
     
  9. wflaschka

    wflaschka Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2003
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    77
    I figure they're measuring the tip-speed during a flick. Or more, the tip-speed during a chest whip that has been parried halfway down the blade. In some DVD video I've captured (24+ fps) the tip is completely lost for 6-12 inches at a time. I've never heard a sonic boom, but I'm sure it gets pretty fast. A tip detatching from the blade at its fastest rate might have the speed of an arrow, or a (very expensive highly machined) musket ball.

    /not a scientist guy
     
  10. Epeecurean

    Epeecurean Rookie

    Joined:
    May 29, 2003
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    39
    Apparently the FIE is considering a rule that flick-whips not only have to meet the 15ms contact time minimum but also have to make a sonic boom when the touch is delivered. :D
     
  11. C.J.

    C.J. Rookie

    Joined:
    May 13, 2003
    Messages:
    376
    Likes Received:
    6
    The speed of a hockey puck is only about 100 mph, which is about as fast as Randy Johnson can pitch a baseball.

    http://www.exploratorium.edu/hockey/shooting1.html

    Theoretically speaking, if you put a foil in Randy Johnson's hand, he could flick the tip of it at the ratio of the length of the foil vs his arm, plus 1, multiplied by 100 mph.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2004
  12. kalivor

    kalivor Podium

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,676
    Likes Received:
    129
    The NHL has a "hardest shot" contest at the All-Star game every year. The winners typically clock around 100 mph, so it's well below tennis and baseball, at the very least.

    As for the tip of a fencing blade, there are times when you can *hear* the blade moving through the air. Think of how fast much more massive objects must be before you can hear them pushing aside the air (not just hear motors, etc). That's pretty fast. The tip moves even faster, particularly during flicks (or partially parried flicks, as has been pointed out).
     
  13. sabreur

    sabreur Podium

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2000
    Messages:
    2,352
    Likes Received:
    261
    Kiddies,

    I hate to say it, but you need to do the math.

    Assume a 36 inch foil, an 18 inch forearm (elbow to middle of hand), that the action moves the tip 90 degrees, in one-tenth of one second (which would be really fast...)

    The tip is therefore moving through an arc whose length is defined by 2(54)pi/4, or 84 inches. If you do the math, you will find that this amounts to a speed of about 50 miles an hour. If you assume our super flicker is also moving forward at 40 inches per 0.1 seconds (world class sprinter speed), you will find that adds 23 or 24 miles an hour--so the speed the tip reaches in a flick probably does not exceed 80 miles per hour maximum.

    The flick is not executed with nearly the concentrated force of a big league baseball pitch or a hockey slapshot--just think about what goes into a pitch--stride, open the hips, shoulder turn, upper arm, elbow, wrist...

    And change of tempo is actually much more important to success than pure speed--someone who moves fast, but linearly, with little change in speed, is relatively easy to parry. It is much harder to gauge changes in speed.

    MR
     
  14. C.J.

    C.J. Rookie

    Joined:
    May 13, 2003
    Messages:
    376
    Likes Received:
    6
    Yes, but your estimate is only for the speed of a normal advance lunge. What about whipovers, fleches, and when a fencer is flicking like he is pitching a baseball?
     
  15. sabreur

    sabreur Podium

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2000
    Messages:
    2,352
    Likes Received:
    261
    Read it again--I'm assuming a flick delivered in a tenth of a second with a 90 degree movement from the elbow, and a fencer who is moving forward at 10 second/100 meter speed (highly unlikely).

    MR
     
  16. C.J.

    C.J. Rookie

    Joined:
    May 13, 2003
    Messages:
    376
    Likes Received:
    6
    There is your fallacy. Just because the hypothetical fencer was a world class sprinter doesn't mean you could ignore the upper arm motion. Circular motion is simply much faster than linear motion, and you can not just add one to another. According to your calculation, a crippled kid could flick as fast as your world class runner if he uses his upper arm.
     
  17. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2001
    Messages:
    15,958
    Likes Received:
    522
    Can you IMAGINE him as a fencer with his reach? I mean, he could nail you without even leaving his on guards line!
     
  18. Delmont91

    Delmont91 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    2
    A paintball leaves the barrel going around 190 mph, why isn't that one up there.... And we get hit with those things :)
     
  19. KShan5[PrFC]

    KShan5[PrFC] Podium

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Messages:
    2,655
    Likes Received:
    178
    Cuz paintball is as much of a sport as laser tag...
     
  20. Delmont91

    Delmont91 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    2
    Hey boyo, if stabbing people with fake swords is a sport, so is paintball. It takes just as much, if not more, work and physical ability. Don't get me wrong, I love fencing, but paintball is as much a sport as fencing, or anything else.
     

Share This Page