Explain "Cadet Designated Event"?

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by jjefferies, Nov 22, 2018.

  1. jjefferies

    jjefferies Podium

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    One of our cadet women mentioned going to Germany for an international event over T-Day. Being curious I tried looking it up on the FIE website using the date and location. But no luck. When I go the USAFencing website I find :
    https://member.usafencing.org/details/tournaments/3509#register-now
    and wondered what the event is. Is it actually an FIE designated event or is it something else. Anyone care to explain it to me. Or if this is a subject that's been rehashed to death how about a link to it.
    best regards
    J.
     
  2. mfp

    mfp Podium

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    It's not on the FIE website as it's not an FIE event. It's a European Fencing Confederation event:

    https://www.eurofencing.info/competitions/upcoming-tournaments/case:inscriptions/competitionId:1976

    Some people incorrectly call these events "Cadet World Cup" events. While they are Cadet events, they aren't FIE events and aren't "World Cups".

    They're more like ROCs that happen to be in Europe that some US cadets fly to in search of points. The "designated" bit indicates an event is designated as one US cadets can get points at.
     
  3. dberke

    dberke Podium

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    Edit: Darn, mfp types faster than I do. Must be the slow WiFi here over the north Atlantic.

    It's an event run by the European Fencing Confederation (EFC) as part of their European Cadet Circuit. "Designated" means that it's an event the USFA has selected as eligible for earning points.

    The EFC is a confederation of the FIE, just as the Pan-Am Fencing Confederation is in the Americas. There is also confederations for Asia, Africa, and Oceania (i.e. Australia). In some sense, you could draw the analogy that confederations are to the FIE as sections are to the USFA (and national federations are "equivalent" to divisions.)

    I don't believe the USFA designates any events other than EFC events because they have the most mature cadet circuit, although Asia has recently introduced a circuit so maybe that will change in the future. EFC cadet events draw a large enough field that the national coaches consider them worth fencing in for international experience.

    To fence in an EFC event, you don't need a FIE license - instead, you need an EFC license. EFC events are run in a similar fashion as World Cups, although not quite as strictly. They are one step below a Junior World Cup, and serve as training grounds for fencers who ultimately will go to those. Like FIE events, they require each country to provide referees based on how many fencers they send, so we send referees. The referees don't need FIE ratings, so these events are also a way for our refs to get international reffing experience.

    Dan
     
  4. jjefferies

    jjefferies Podium

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    Dan, you're right! Mike seems to have fast fingers despite their being so large. Thanks guys for giving me the background. I think this event may be why I don't get a lesson this Monday. Sandor is refereeing and I suspect Germany may be the location.

    Despite the attraction of going abroad I wonder if any American events are similarly treated by other confederations.
     
  5. teacup

    teacup Podium

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    The Canadian fencing federation uses placement at some designated NACs for Canadian world team selection.

    Calling ECC circuit events world cups would be like calling our NAC events world cups.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
  6. jjefferies

    jjefferies Podium

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    Ah well MFP, it was her first European event. Made the cutoff but lost her first DE. We should be nice to her?;)
     
  7. lovefoil

    lovefoil Made the Cut

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    Although, the European Cadet Circuits are not technically World Cups, most of these events are very strong with many other continents attending. Some junior world cups, depending on the location, might be much weaker than a Cadet European event. Designated events give points to make national team and great practice against the best under-17 fencers. By the way, some of our NACs are even stronger than some junior World Cups. Fencing is very strong in the US now and many international fencers come to our NACs. Beside the quality of fencers, the events here are huge, and to make it to top 8 in a consistent basis might be more difficult than getting some points internationally.
     
  8. ReadyFence

    ReadyFence Podium

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    Yes and no. Many European federations place less emphasis on cadet, and focus more on juniors, so you see the US dominating in cadet but less so in juniors (in general). It’s in juniors that US fencers often transition to the college game, just when International fencers ramp up.
     
  9. naysayernyc

    naysayernyc Made the Cut

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    Yes, this is in general true. The vast majority of US fencers cut back competition severely for college and then drop out entirely afterwards. The Europeans (and Asians) have made it possible to continue to fence for a career for a larger number of fencers. Just look at the latest foil cadet event in Moedling US finished 1-8 in both Mens and Womens and had 14 of top 16 Womens and 11 of top 16 Mens. The US is not anywhere close to be being this dominant in Jr/Sr.
     
    ReadyFence likes this.
  10. teacup

    teacup Podium

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    Besides a cadet circuit, the ECC also has U14 and U23 circuits.
     
  11. jjefferies

    jjefferies Podium

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    I'm still being astounded that families, i.e. parents, will make the sacrifices so their youngsters can attend these events.
     
  12. ReadyFence

    ReadyFence Podium

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    Those are strictly European tournaments, like our NACs (at least the U14). Or are you referring to EFC cadet and FIE junior events that US fencers compete in?
     
  13. teacup

    teacup Podium

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    NACs aren't strictly North American tournaments. Fencers from any country can and have competed.

    The EFC cadet, U14 and U23 circuit events are open to fencers from all countries, they are not restricted. The US could designate any of these events for domestic points.

    https://www.eurofencing.info//competitions/upcoming-tournaments
     
  14. ReadyFence

    ReadyFence Podium

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    Of course we could, we just don’t. And yes, we usually have quite a few foreign fencers at every NAC. Very few US fencers compete in non-designated euro events because the points earned only count towards an intermational ranking, and do not add to US rolling or team points.
     
  15. teacup

    teacup Podium

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    I was commenting to your statement that the EFC events are strictly European events. They are not restricted to Europeans. Americans choose not to attend because no domestic points are awarded but they are not prohibited from attending.
     
  16. Soberin

    Soberin Podium

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    "Fencing for a career" doesn't have anything to do with the fact that the Europeans and Asians do not populate the EFC events as do the US fencers. Rather it is a function of finances---it's quite a trip from Japan to France, so they don't come. This in turn, is related to the selection
    criteria for the European and Asian Cadet Teams for the Cadet/Junior Worlds. Other countries do not award "points" as does the USFA.Therefore, there is less motivation to fly around the world at the age of 15 if you are from Croatia or Hong Kong. They have other, less transparent, methods of choosing their Cadet Word Teams, which would not sit well with the parents of US fencers.

    "Making it possible to continue to fence for a career" as you note, is once again, a function of finances at the Senior level. The Russian, Italian, French and Japanese equivalent of our Senior Team are state sponsored, ( how long has Cassara been an officer in the Carabinieri now, 20 years?), which makes it possible to eat and pay rent (not much more, however), which is not afforded our Seniors, hence the retirement of our best post-college fencers ranked below the top 4. It has nothing to do with Cadets.
     
  17. ReadyFence

    ReadyFence Podium

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    The Europeans don’t populate the EFC events like the US does? There are 425 cadet sabre fencers at the EFC tournament in Germany this weekend, but only 40 are American (and only a handful of Japanese, Singaporean and HK fencers). Similar numbers for cadet foil in France as we speak, again with only 40 American fencers. So the Europeans are the majority of the events’ “population.”
     

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