epee - ground (earth) on a grip

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by StupidPeopleTrick, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. StupidPeopleTrick

    StupidPeopleTrick Made the Cut

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    Howdy,

    I have a question/situation.
    While in a bout, I hit the opponent in the hand. My light did not go off.
    The opponent continued with his motion, scoring the touch.
    Upon examination/discussion after the hit, I had hit the opponent's grip (non-painted pistol grip). We confirmed this by touching the glove (light) and touching the grip (no light).
    This (grip hit) grounded the hit as if it were a hit to the guard.
    The hit was strong enough to bend the blade.


    So, the questions:
    Would this grip be allowed through weapons control?
    Would I have room to protest the hit were the bout in a competition?
    m.17, m.18 and m.19 do not shed light on this.


    thanks
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  2. DHCJr

    DHCJr Armorer

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    The simple answer is YES! This is corrected. Thank you jjefferies for catching my mistake. I misread the question. jjefferies post is the correct post.

    First of all, it is supposed to do that. See m.4.3. It is not supposed to have any covering.

    Before the Anti-fraud for Foil (mid-80's) a Foil, painted/insulated handle could not be used for Epee uninsulated metal handle and visa-versa.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  3. jjefferies

    jjefferies Podium

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    Hi DHCJr,
    your post confuses me. "No" a bare metal grip is not legal or "No" this is the way it is supposed to be.
    My understanding is that in epee a bare metal orthopedic grip is appropriate so that hitting it would not register a touch. Painted orthopedic grips were for foil. Are you saying my present understanding incorrect?
     
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  4. StupidPeopleTrick

    StupidPeopleTrick Made the Cut

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    So how or what basis would I have to protest the hit if the bout was in competition? (the opponent light went off 1 sec after I hit his grip)
     
  5. mtwieg2

    mtwieg2 DE Bracket

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    There is no basis for protest. It's not a valid target in epee. It's as if you hit the bell guard.
     
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  6. DHCJr

    DHCJr Armorer

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    Whose to say you hit the inside of the guard and not the handle. Which is more likely the handle covered almost completely y the hand or the guard? As mtwieg2 said you can't.
     
  7. downunder

    downunder is a Verified Fencing Expertdownunder Podium

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    The weapon is not valid target in epee.
     
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  8. jkormann

    jkormann Podium

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    The rule says no covering with the intent to hide wires or switches. I don't know how to use a baked-on coating to do that.

    Since this is Epee, t.91 should come into play, "In épée the target includes the whole of the fencer’s body including his clothing and equipment. Thus any point which arrives counts as a touch whatever part of the body (trunk, limbs or head), the clothing or the equipment it touches (see Figure 5). "
    t.94.1 (annulment of touches) only speaks to the guard, not to the rest of the weapon. I agree in principle.
     
  9. downunder

    downunder is a Verified Fencing Expertdownunder Podium

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    t.94 addresses annulling touches due to failures of the electrical equipment. In this case the electrical equipment is working exactly as intended.
     
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  10. erik_blank

    erik_blank Podium

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    Just to start down a related path... If the fencers glove is soaked in sweat, could this allow for a grounding of the hit to the blade if the opponent lands on the fencers sweat soaked glove that is creating a circuit through to the weapons grip/handle/pommel nut?
     
  11. DHCJr

    DHCJr Armorer

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    Yes, this would be a good use of t.94 that downunder brought up.
     
  12. damianip

    damianip Podium

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    This is the correct and relevant answer. You don't get a point for hitting your opponent's weapon...

    Unless, like me and others, you use a FG and the grip is covered with something non-conductive. I've increased my target area: my choice, my risk.

    I have hit my opponent's grip on many occasions. No touch for me. Simple.
     
  13. StupidPeopleTrick

    StupidPeopleTrick Made the Cut

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    Thanks for your input.
    To get a touch inside the guard is very satisfying; however, not getting the light because you hit the grip makes for :(.
     

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