Don't call it classical fencing but traditional.

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by Spenzario, Aug 22, 2016.

  1. foodle

    foodle Made the Cut

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    How about we just combine one of the Olympics' oldest sports with one of the newest?

    I hereby propose: Trampoline fencing!

    I bet the IOC wouldn't complain about TV viewership. Although injury rate might be an issue.
     
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  2. Spenzario

    Spenzario Rookie

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    Great!!! Trampoline fencing! All those classical bend arm whipping fencers. Trampoline fencing, that is my sport!
     
  3. neevel

    neevel Armorer

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    Looks like the People's Front of Judea has decided to call out the ideological errors of the Judean People's Front, Campaign for a Free Galilee, and Judean Popular People's Front.
     
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  4. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    We already have that. It's called epee. ;)
     
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  5. neevel

    neevel Armorer

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    No. 6 wanted to do that, but residents of The Village were not able to obtain fencing weapons.

     
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  6. migopod

    migopod Podium

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    They were able to obtain them on another occasion.
     
  7. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    Can it be entirely coincidental that one of the fencing clubs at which I practice is called The Village?
     
  8. neevel

    neevel Armorer

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    Did you mysteriously wind up there after trying to retire?
     
  9. tbryan

    tbryan Podium

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    I think that it's more likely that the bad color attracts his attention. ;)
     
  10. TeamRetic

    TeamRetic Rookie

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  11. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    I don't retire for another 8 months or so. Perhaps I am doing things in reverse, like Merlin or Benjamin Button.
     
  12. Stormbringer

    Stormbringer DE Bracket

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    The "springblade" athletic shoes (see here) and "supercar" athletic shoes (see here) - both by Adidas - are essentially already spring-loaded, yes?

    And, at that point, there is no rule forbidding fencing in heelys with the wheels in (there was a fencing-themed webcomic, once upon a time, where that was the subject of one of the strips), or even full skates (smaller-wheeled (sub-60mm) aggressive skates would probably be better than larger-wheeled (80mm+) recreational or fitness skates, IMO)... or ninja-turtle-foot shoes, or "minimalist shoes" in the style of Vibrams FiveFingers... :p
     
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  13. Gordon L

    Gordon L Made the Cut

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    Competition fighting split off from duelling in the 1600s.

    Even Olympic epée [de combat / oka duelling sword] is an awkward hybrid of duelling and competition rules.

    The first blood duels still allowed use of the back hand, disarms, and other moves which had been removed from competition use a long time before.
     
  14. Steve Khinoy

    Steve Khinoy DE Bracket

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    As long as swordfighting has been practiced "for real," i.e. in dueling, on the battlefield, in street or tavern fighting, it has also been practiced as a sport--a sport that prepared for real fighting. The real break comes when there is little or no "real" swordfighting: duels few to the vanishing point, cavalry charges rare, rarer, and futile. Then sport fencing alone survived until the renaissance of HEMA. "Classical" or "traditional" fencing, which is what I learned in the 1950's, probably a little earlier than Nick Evangelista and a little later than Dr. Gaugler, if practiced today is a form of historical recreation. The modern sport has evolved, as all living practices must.
    (Granted, there are evolutionary dead ends.)
     
  15. K O'N

    K O'N Podium

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    I don't know why I feel the urge to respond to stuff like this, but anyway:

    Epee du combat is dueling sword with sharp points, not the sport of epee fencing. Epee fencing is the most popular fencing weapon in the world, so I think we can conclude that your pessimistic view of it as "an awkward hybrid" is not universally held.

    If by "The first blood duels" you mean late 19th century epee du combat duels, that's not correct. La Marche's book on epee fencing and combat from 1884 has a long section on when it is and when it is not forgivable to parry with the back hand; the TL;DR version is that an instinctive swipe with the back hand can be forgiven, but a planned back hand parry is a breach of honor.
     
  16. Gordon L

    Gordon L Made the Cut

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    We're in an Evangelista thread - what else are we going to end up talking about? :)

    Well, yes and no. That's true enough now. But then again, how many first blood duels with epées are there now? For the first couple of decades of the Olympics, up to 1912 inclusive, the event was "duelling sword" in English. There was no linguistic difference between duelling or competition use. And we lack many of the official FIE records once they take over governing Olympic fencing in 1913. The key issue in that early period was, ostensibly, to preserve the character of a first-blood encounter with sharps. In Olympic competition. But they preserved a lot of Hope and L'Abbat's competition rules from the 17th century as they did this.


    I wasn't attempting to be pessimistic - just describing the fact that in sportifying duelling, they ended up with something that was a bit ni l'un ni l'autre - not quite as sportified as foil and yet not quite as duelly as the real thing.

    Thanks for that pointer - I'm away to try and find a copy of it online and have a good read now.. (If you've got any pointers to a copy, I'd greatly appreciate the help. My google-fu has failed me so far) The sources I've read till now have all allowed use of the back arm in duelling (i.e. not just in street self-defense) but not in competition.
     
  17. Steve Khinoy

    Steve Khinoy DE Bracket

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    [Asking out of curiosity, not challenging] What are your sources?
     
  18. K O'N

    K O'N Podium

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    I don't know of a copy online. The Kindle price on Amazon was something like $22 when I was looking for a copy. You can get a new trade paperback for $11 from the publisher here:

    http://www.paladin-press.com/product/The-Dueling-Sword/Historical_Arms_and_Combat

    I thought it was quite good. I got more out of this and de Bazancourt's book than any other historical book on fencing I've read.
     
  19. Gordon L

    Gordon L Made the Cut

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    Well, use of the back arm in competitions is certainly out of favour in the French-derived schools by 1694.

    There's a great story of one of the Angelos' pupils using a back-arm disarming technique during two successive duels, spaced years apart.

    I'll try to dig it out.

    If you PM with your email address, I'll happily email you one key source for the first part.
     

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