Difference Between Normal and German Two-Prong Sockets

Discussion in 'Armory - Q&A' started by Philix, Jan 6, 2019.

  1. Philix

    Philix Rookie

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    Hi! I was wondering what the difference between normal (French?) and German two-prong sockets, because I want to start to assemble my own blades and I'm still a bit unsure about foil assembling. Also, please fill me in about things I should know about foil assembling. Thanks!
     
  2. ktinoue3

    ktinoue3 Podium

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    French 2 prongs have the clip on the socket. German have the clip on the body chord
     
  3. SJCFU#2

    SJCFU#2 Podium

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    Also the bracket arm on the French 2-prong socket is generally on the outside, while on the German socket it is on the inside (see below).
     

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  4. brtech

    brtech Podium

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    Also, for the past, oh, maybe 10-12 years "normal" = German, and we don't see much French design in 2 prong. Most vendors don't even carry the French design anymore.
     
  5. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    Yeah...I haven't for years.
     
  6. SJCFU#2

    SJCFU#2 Podium

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    True, but there are still a lot of old ones out there, most probably just sitting in forgotten corners of club armories waiting to be thrown away (the problem is that outside of the plastic clips, there isn't much to break so many people are reluctant to get rid of them - certainly one of my bad habits).

    And every once on a while I do still see someone with a French-style 2-prong plug (noteworthy simply because they are so uncommon - although still more common than an Italian bayonet).
     
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  7. DHCJr

    DHCJr Armorer

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    Last month, I was working a tournament where the organizers asked for Masks, gloves, lamé material, cords, not weapons. Not much of note until the highest rated referee complained that I had passed a body cord that to them was illegal as they had no security device. The weapon they were using had a German style connector.

    I informed them the body cord was legal and it was their responsibility to make sure it was used properly. As they are responsible for the fit of the weapon, jacket, breeches, lamé, mask and glove.
     
  8. fenceart

    fenceart Made the Cut

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    I'm wandering out on the skinny little branch....again. I started using the French body cord/socket setup when I first began to compete, about 11 years ago in all honesty, because my husband bought me gear and just got it that way. I absolutely LOVE the French bodycord even though I sometimes get raised eyebrows at some NAC armory checks but along with that I get the "pass" tape on them as well. And why do I love thee? Let me count the ways: VERY straightforward design - no banana plug configuration to have to pry apart when the post gets skinny and doesn't have good contact anymore. These work because they are offset and the contact stays because of the pressure. No worries about the clip flying off because the teeny screw decides to come out at some inopportune moment (and yes,this has happened on "good" German cords) Or, if you have a slightly lesser quality cord, the clip wiggles around a lot and doesn't keep the plug in socket; or it's really stiff and you have to manhandle it to get it unplugged. I have and still use those first two Leon Paul bodycords with the French setup and used them for SEVEN YEARS before I had to replace wires. I couldn't find that exact wire (didn't really look too hard) so I put the French plugs on conventional 2-prong wires, though that gauge is a tad larger due to thicker plastic. On the original wire, repair is super easy - push back rubber cover, loosen screw, cut wire to get rid of bad area, stick wire back in, reset screw. You don't even have to strip the wire or take apart the clip with nuts, screws, springs, clip, etc. to access plug. Tweaking them for proper conductivity, just due to use (an armourer at a NAC showed me) just loosen screw jiggle wire, tighten, that goes for socket or back plug. I have heard complaints about the plastic clip used to secure the plug - again, in all the years I have been using them, I have had one broken and that was a direct hit over the guard on it. In my mind, these plugs are SO straightforward and simple, why on earth use anything else? Jeez,one of the easy and simple things about foil fencing/repair/maintenance. I was very disappointed to find LP had discontinued these as I had wanted a backup cord (maybe because they last forever? Maybe that's why no one is making them?) SO I was thrilled, at the last summer nationals to find Gary had a stash of these LP cords from Gary so I got two. Made my day - so happy to have these backups now. I took them to the table for inspection - the guys laughed, said they never saw someone so excited about a body cord, however,one of them did agree that they were the most sensible ones out there. I really don't understand why they get such a bad reputation. I think my limb just broke off the tree........
     
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  9. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    I standardized to LP bayonet because the two-prong wire connected underneath, which was a pain. Today's two-prongs connect on top.
     
  10. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    I have long had a habit of flexing the blade of my sabre after every phrase---a sort of maintain-the-curvature maintenance measure.

    To this now all but unconscious habit I seem to have added another: giving the body cord clip button a tightening twist. This appears to be keeping my clips from springing apart at random times, obviating the necessity of hunting all over the strip and environs for the individual bits ( especially that dratted tiny screw, which usually can only be found half the time ).
     
  11. Zebra

    Zebra Podium

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    What is the official size of that [expletive deleted] thing? Every armory has lots of buttons and retainers and springs, but zero screws.
     
  12. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    I believe that it is "1/2 micron bugger" size.
     
  13. fenceart

    fenceart Made the Cut

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    LP two prong connected underneath.... I assume you are referring to the wire of the foil into the socket? And that is a pain on so many fewer occasions than plugging in. Frankly, my man hands have a problem with the little nut and post no matter where it is.

    Giving body cord button a twist, well, I don't have to remember to do that; nothing mechanical to fail here.
     
  14. DHCJr

    DHCJr Armorer

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    I think some education is in order. You do Not have French style connectors. There are 3 types of 2-prong connectors. German, French & British. The British is a modification of the French design being the offset. Leon Paul Bayonet have a bad reputation, not the 2-prong. The reason for that is movable parts on both the male and female connectors. For an Electrical Engineer that is a problem waiting to happen. Look at any other Electrical connector you have in you house. Only one side (usually the female) will have movable parts. Move movable parts, more chance for an intermittent circuit. The Leon Paul bayonet is a variation on the original Foil connector the Carmimari, which has a solid male and a movable female. The Toykyo Sport is closer to the original, but smaller and more fragile. The Italian Nova Scherma seems to be a bad copy of the Leon Paul.
     
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  15. erik_blank

    erik_blank Podium

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    Any chance you have a nice set of stock photos of all the different connectors?
     
  16. brtech

    brtech Podium

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    The LP bayonet is approximately an order of magnitude more reliable than any version of the German 2 pin. It roughly never breaks. It is susceptible to LPD, which is slowly increasing resistance, solved by backing off and tightening the screws. It roughly never breaks the wire, it never has a collapsed pin, and it has a positive lock. There are failure modes, but they happen very rarely.
     
  17. jkormann

    jkormann Podium

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    100% agree. The only critique I can offer is to use the LP female socket with the raised metal bar. This prevents it from rotating out of the socket.

    The biggest advice I offer to someone who asks which is the best foil body cord to use, is to use the one which allows you to borrow equipment. Nothing worse than being a bayo-socket in an event of two-prong and need to borrow either a foil or a body-cord.
    (/threadjack)
     
  18. fenceart

    fenceart Made the Cut

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    i am sending a photo of what I have this weekend so I can be educated. because now I don't know what to call my cords, except, working.
     
  19. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    You guys say this, but I fence at one salle where almost everyone uses LP bayonets because the coach likes them and recommends them for all of his students. And I find myself saying, roughly once a month, in sarcastic imitation of the coach, "Oh, bayonet cords never break"...directly after one breaks.

    You may be correct if they are handled properly, but they seem to require a knack to connect and apparently lots of kids either haven't got that knack or the strength or dexterity to handle them properly. They get wrenched, twisted, levered back and forth in attempts to connect or disconnect them and...they break. They do break, and not all that infrequently.
     
  20. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    Keep one other-type in your bag.
     

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