Desired age of competitive results affecting rating?

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by PeterGustafsson, Aug 19, 2006.


What is the appropriate time-out period of competitive results affecting rating?

Poll closed Nov 27, 2006.
  1. Less than one year

    0 vote(s)
  2. At least one year, but less than 2 years

    14 vote(s)
  3. At least 2 years, but less than 4 years

    23 vote(s)
  4. 4 years or more

    5 vote(s)
  5. Depends - I promise to explain my position in detail

    1 vote(s)
  1. PeterGustafsson

    PeterGustafsson Rookie

    Nov 1, 2002
    Likes Received:

    Under the present USFA system, results as old as 4 years may affect your rating. Under the FIE system, only 1-yearold results come into play.

    The longer the time period is, the less risk is that variations in competitive frequency will affect ratings. OTOH, a long time period for time-out will lead to a single out-of-character good result will overrate people, and any degradation in fencing strength will take a long time to show in ratings.

    A too short time period will obviously have the opposite problems, too much emphasis on competing frequently and a single bad month or quarter leading to a fencer being seriously underrated.

    So, what is the best compromise for a rating system catering to fencers which are not complete beginners, nor have any real chance of making it to the national teams?

    Have a nice time!
  2. fencerbill

    fencerbill Podium

    Jun 26, 2003
    Likes Received:
    Confusion between US ratings and FIE rankings. I understand Canada has an analog of the US rating system which derives directly from annual rankings. Certain top percentage are called "A", and so on. Such a system is more easily compared to FIE rankings. Am I correct in that FIE rankings are 12 month continuous rolling sums where you substitute this year's results, if any, for last year's. Canada's ratings are revised at the end of the competition season?
  3. Serpentile6

    Serpentile6 Rookie

    Aug 17, 2006
    Likes Received:
    Personally I would say 2 years which would give an individual ample time to renew/ refresh thier rating while keeping an emphasis on the competive nature of the sport. 4 years in my opinion is a bit long. Some people take years off to come to a competition with a high rating without fencing to that standard. Many times I have seen A and B fencers taken out of a competition long before thier counterparts simply because they are out of practice. IMO 2 years is plenty of time.
  4. OROD

    OROD Podium

    Jul 18, 2005
    Likes Received:
    No, they affect your rating much longer than that. They only go down one letter grade in 4 years... big difference.

  5. lanier

    lanier Rookie

    Jan 12, 2006
    Likes Received:

    I'm D-04, its already 06, and I haven't taken any time off; so self interest demands I go with four or more.

    The effect of someone re-entering after a break long enough to diminish his skill is to increase the odds of another earning a rating. So I like that too; an easy rating is no more offensive to me than a remise.

    The prospect of sliding from D to E is grim enough; it must be that much more so for B and A fencers. The effect of reducing the time those fencers have to re-earn their ratings, and I've seen plenty work mightily at doing so, may be to tempt them to leave at the top.

    This entire point of view is colored by the fact that I am a pushing -60 never-was; those preferrig at shorter duration are, I guess, young up and comers.
  6. danarielle

    danarielle Rookie

    Aug 1, 2005
    Likes Received:
    Canada's system, roughly, is as follows -- I think that this is correct:

    1. High Performance Rankings -- start from "0" each year at the Nationals in May...end in the Spring before the Junior/Cadet Worlds, and later for the Senior Team. Based on results in the Nationals, two selection competitions and a High Performance Camp competition. Used to select Team Canada members for World Championships and Cadet/Junior Worlds.

    2. HPRankings also include "absolute" standards -- certain levels of performance required of Cadets/Juniors in NACs, and of Seniors at Senior World Cups -- in order to be selected for the national teams, again starting from "0" each year.

    3. Domestic Rankings -- includes national and selection competitions (total of 3 per year) AND local and regional competitions. I believe that under the new system, Domestic Rankings will be a "rolling" ranking system, with results falling off and being replaced on the anniversary of the competition -- like the USFA point system.

    3. Letter rankings -- based on Domestic Rankings, which are awarded at the END of the season and last for one year -- "A" fencers are ONLY those on the senior team; B, C, and D letters are awarded to certain percentages of fencers below the 2/4 members of the senior team in each weapon. The letter rankings are also used in a formula to compute domestic points for participants in national, local and regional competitions -- the more A and B fencers etc, the greater the number of points awarded in any particular competition. To quote:

    Method used for the awarding of classifications /
    Voici de quelle façon les calcule ont été fait :
    A - those who have met the Squad (or higher) Athlete ID Criteria /
    ceux qui on remple le critere de l' athlète de la réserve (ou plus haut)
    B - top 8% of the ranking (not including A's) /
    le 8% du total restant du classement (sans les "A")
    C - next 12% of the ranking (not including A's and B's) /
    le 12% du total restant (sans les "A" et "B")
    D - next 20% (not including A's, B's, and C's) /
    le 20% du total restant (sans les "A", "B", et "C")
  7. Zelda

    Zelda Rookie

    Feb 21, 1999
    Likes Received:
    Australia works on a rolling system - which has its benifits and its disadvantages. I only sort of get it, Downunder can do the calculations in his sleep last I heard. After 8 odd years I am still not sure if I like it.... it may be because I know I will never make the top 10.

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