Crossing rear of opponent's strip

Discussion in 'Rules and Referee Questions' started by jkormann, May 17, 2018.

  1. jkormann

    jkormann Podium

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    This came up at the club this week.
    If a fencer crosses the rear of their opponent's strip, a fletch being the most obvious reason, what happens?
    t.27 doesn't say which end of the strip, just that crossing the rear is a point against the crosser.
    Or, should it be read into the text that rear is positional to the fencer and it's not possible to cross the rear of the strip if it's in front of you.
     
  2. dcchew

    dcchew Podium

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    Nothing as long as the attacking fencer doesn't go over the side of the piste before he passes the other fencer. The fencers are brought back to the piste and the spacing is determined by the referee.
     
  3. Goldgar

    Goldgar Podium

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    For the attacking fencer, that's not the rear limit, it's the forward limit. Hence, t.27 does not apply.
     
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  4. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    There's a Halt when the attacking fencer completely passes their opponent.
     
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  5. jdude97

    jdude97 Podium

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    It is possible for a fencer to be completely beyond the rear boundary with their feet but not be completely passed. It was be an unlikely scenario but I think you can picture this scenario without too much trouble. I don't see any reason why this would be a halt though under the rules, and certainly not any penalty.
     
  6. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    o_OWhich fencer is completely beyond the rear boundary?
     
  7. jdude97

    jdude97 Podium

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    Sorry to not be completely clear. Referring to a fencer being over his opponent's rear line.
     
  8. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    Understanding that you posit the defender with his forward big toe hovering over the end line. Then yes - the attacker's feet would indeed be beyond the end line before completing passing the defender. Never seen it though. Just to make it more interesting, suppose the defender turns with the attacker, beginning that action before completely passed, and lands a touch but by doing so crosses the end line. Hard halt negates touch, ne c'est pas?
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
  9. kalivor

    kalivor Podium

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    This.
     
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  10. jdude97

    jdude97 Podium

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    Yeah I would think so. So all I need to do to score a free touch is push my opponent to the end of the strip, get him leaning back one toe on, go past but not quite all the way, and get him to turn and hit me going off in the process :p EZ game
     
  11. jkormann

    jkormann Podium

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    But look how much fun they are having!
     
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  12. ChrisL

    ChrisL Made the Cut

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    Without being offensive its interesting to me that US fencing in particular seems to generate these questions of minutiae of the rules.
    Most other nations fencers/coaches/refs would say "obviously its not off the piste and a point so no trouble" but in this and other discussions US fencing seems to be much more officious about going to the letter of the law (the mouse hole thing a while back comes to mind). I also hear US armourers at world cups are considered amongst the most discerning.

    I wonder if there's something cultural to the different fencing nations approach
     
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  13. Zebra

    Zebra Podium

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    I don't think it's cultural or even specific to fencing. Whatever sport it is (baseball is a great example), there are people who make a hobby of parsing rules and creating hypothetical situations to push them to their limits.
     
  14. AStoddard

    AStoddard Rookie

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    I thought the same but two FIE level foil referees both agreed that it should be a halt with no touch either way -
     

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