Cost of junior competitions

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by idris, Sep 22, 2017.

  1. idris

    idris Rookie

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    I'm surprised to see the entry fees for junior competions (U11 in this case) are so high: £25-£30 or more.

    I'm sure I've entered provincial adult competitions around the same size for half that price. And a major manufacturer has their name attached to the series (free advertising and doubtless lit for sale on the day) . So I'm struggling to see the justification for such a high price for kids.

    When fencing is widely perceived as a sport for posh people with loads of money to splash around, this does nothing to dispel that image.

    Discuss.
     
  2. jdude97

    jdude97 Podium

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    This forum is mostly Americans so
    1) note that in the US (and also globally) junior means U20; U11 would be a youth competition (youth goes up to U14 more commonly known as Y14)
    2) most people on this forum will have no idea what is a fair cost for fencing tournaments in the UK.

    With that said, $25-30 would be a normal cost for a local fencing tournament. Sanctioned regional tournaments cost much more, $30 + $25/event = $55+ looking at an upcoming Regional Youth Circuit (RYC) event. And if you think $25 is high, look at national competition costs: $100 + $65/event!

    We don't have sponsors at events in the way you describe as far as I know, so I don't know how to take that into account, but keep in mind that fencing tournaments cost a lot of money to run. You have to rent a space, bring in equipment, pay the refs, pay for refs' travel expenses, hire a bout committee, purchase medals/trophies, and more. A number of local tournament holders I've spoken with tell me the tournaments they put on in their club tend to, at best, be break even. They run them more as a service to their members and the community than as a money maker.

    Also, you seem to be saying not necessarily that all fencing tournaments cost too much, but that tournaments for kids cost too much. Keep in mind that there's no particular reason that a tournament for kids should cost less to run than a tournament for adults. Assuming competitions of the same size, an organizer still has all of the expenses I listed above.

    In terms of your last statement that this supposed high cost reinforces fencing's image, I don't know how much other sports cost in the UK, but in the US, to enter your kid in a basketball, soccer, etc. tournament would likely cost at least $25. So while the $165+ you have to pay for national tournaments may reinforce a negative image, $25 for a local tournament does not at all IMO.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
  3. Blackwood

    Blackwood DE Bracket

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    I mainly agree with your post, but feel it need to nit-pick a little.
    • Y14 means 14 and under, while U14 (if there is such a thing) would mean under 14.
    • At today's exchange rate £25-£30 is the equivalent of $34 to $41, so a little more than you say is typical for local US tournaments.
     
  4. jdude97

    jdude97 Podium

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    While you would think U14 would mean under 14, when U17 and U20 are used for cadet and junior respectively, it means 17 & under and 20 & under respectively.

    I didn't take into account exchange rates on the assumption that $1 had the same purchasing power as £1. However, according to OECD, the actual purchasing power in the UK in 2016 was 0.694£/$, so £25-30 = $36-$43, so I admit this was a false assumption.
     
  5. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    That's cheap. Entry fee for Veterans is 55€. Last I heard it was 60€ for senior World Cups and 100€ for Grand Prix.
     
  6. Strytllr

    Strytllr DE Bracket

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    Actually Cadet is 13-16 (2001-2004 for the 17/18 season), and Junior is 13-19 (1998-2004 for the 17/18 season). So U17 and U20 do not include 17 year olds or 20 year olds respectively.
     
  7. jdude97

    jdude97 Podium

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    The season starts for fencers 13-16 and 13-19 but ends 13-17 and 13-20. That's why it switches from U16 to U17 and U19 to U20 midway through the season.
     
  8. dberke

    dberke Podium

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    The junior & cadet season is not aligned with the USFA season, which is why cadet changes from U17 to U16 and junior from U20 to U19. The junior/cadet season ends with JOs, which is held a few weeks before the Junior/Cadet World Championships (which officially ends the FIE junior/cadet season.)

    All junior/cadet events held after JOs are part of the next season, which is why the age categories change. For example, a cadet fencer who is 16 on January 1, 2017 will be 17 on January 1, 2018. This makes him/her too old for cadet in the 2017-2018 season. But since the cadet season starts after JOs in 2017, cadet events held from March through July must exclude this fencer because he/she is now too old for cadet. So we call cadet events during this period U16 to reflect this change in year.

    To make things more confusing, remember that eligibility is based on birth year, not actual age on the date of the event. To be eligible for cadet events at JOs and the Cadet World Championships in 2018, fencers have to be born from 2001-2004. That means they must be 13-16 years old as of January 1st, 2018. So a fencer who is born on January 2, 2001 will turn 17 on January 2, 2018 - but they are still eligible for U17 at JOs because they were 16 on January 1, 2017.

    Dan
     
  9. ChrisL

    ChrisL DE Bracket

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    The forum www.fencingforum.com is generally more used by British based fencers

    In my opinion events in the UK are far too cheap in general tbh
     
  10. Gordon L

    Gordon L Made the Cut

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    I run U13 Mixed Plastic Foil events. We provide all the masks and foils, there is no self-refereeing, and we actually follow HSE and Sport England guidelines for space.

    So our funds pretty much go on hall hire, a bit on floor tape, and then we spend whatever is left over on medals and trophies. The events used to be framed as £15, with a £3 late-entry fee. We've been trying it recently as £18, with an Early Bird rate of £15. Either way, people still book in in the week before the event. (~ $24US, or ~ €20 )

    For the events where they need access to a large number of reels, ground leads, and scoring boxes, I'm not surprised it costs even more to run. Those ground leads don't stay in place without a *lot* of Duck tape.

    We run three rounds of pools, with the last round streamed into "League Divisions". Because we are in effect a single-event competition, and we have no eleimination rounds, we don't get to up the hall utilisation rate by creative scheduling of multiple events.

    To maximise the use of the hall, this meant I needed to have as fast a turnaround in between rounds as possible - at times we have up to 11 pools to process at once. So I built the ClubKnight paperless poolsheet scoring and publication system. This has re-claimed us about an hour of the schedule in a 5-hour event. ( Version 5.6 is available free from http://clubknight.uk )

    If anyone is passing by Edinburgh,Scotland on November 11th with a primary school-aged fencer in tow, please do come and join us. We've never given out a "Champion Fencer of.." medal for anyone outside of Scotland yet.

    ( Booking is on-line, via http://bit.ly/paff-form, and there should be details on the FB page https://www.facebook.com/paffencing/ and the website, http://paff.uk.to )

    If anyone wants to use our competition format, just PM me.
     
  11. Gordon L

    Gordon L Made the Cut

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    I think the main effect on UK competitions of attempting to keep the price down is that the safety margins get dropped because the pistes get too tightly packed together.
     
  12. Pt_fencer

    Pt_fencer Made the Cut

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    In Portugal we pay 10€ normal competitions and to nationals drops to 5€
     

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