changes to priorty interpretation?

Discussion in 'Rules and Referee Questions' started by anton_fairfax, Nov 12, 2018.

  1. anton_fairfax

    anton_fairfax Rookie

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    While watching the Lowe von Bonn team foil on youtube, one of the commentators made reference to a change in priority interpretation.

    He said one thing that we'll be seeing this season is "a slight shift in the refereeing towards favouring attacks into preparation". he said, over the last two or three years, refereeing was very generous towards broad attacks, but now, any hesitation, or stutters in your attack, may be viewed as a preparation, "especially if [the opponent] does a step lunge".

    can anyone explain what this "change" is exactly? I realize, in one sense, if you are advancing, and stop or hesitate for too long, you can forfeit priority, but that has always been the case afaik. I'm wondering what kind of calls would have gone one way last year, but will go the other way this year...

    and if this is a decision that has been made, where would one find info on this?
     
  2. Don Treanor

    Don Treanor Rookie

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    I have one of those "broad general" read "slow" attacks once I initially establish ROW. One of the things I noticed early on, so long as I was moving forward no matter how slowly, and never made four points of contact, heal and balls of both feet, I was OK and maintained ROW. As soon as I made four points of contact, I stopped, and lost ROW. I have some refs that watch closely for any stop, and some that can't be bothered paying that close of attention.
    Those of us that use the more off-beat indirect attacks will always be aware of the refing style and know to adjust to suit.
     
  3. keropie

    keropie Podium

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    That's sort of the key interpretation change, as I understand it: what constitutes a stop, or too long of a hesitation.

    The other thing I've seen (from international videos, last weekend's Junior/Cadet NAC, and talking to other refs) is that there is a larger interpretation against 'waiting' while marching forward. There were more calls (in both saber and foil) that the fencer moving forward was just waiting, and the other fencer made a valid attack into that.

    I'd say look at current international fencing videos and watch for ref trends, and talk to the better refs (especially those who work internationally) at larger events.
     
  4. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    Did. No change.
     
  5. keropie

    keropie Podium

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    By no change, do you mean none of the refs were discussing the changing interpretation, or you didn't see any changes to calls based on that? I did not work much in priority weapons, but I did watch and see some calls against the fencer moving forward specifically because they were 'waiting.' I talked to both foil and saber refs about that, and got confirmation from high level domestic refs and international refs that this becoming 'a thing' in both weapons. There's still a LOT of context around it (in foil, if the 'defending' fencer closes distance hard, the 'attacking' fencer has more leeway to make a 'softer' attack, etc.), but I have seen more of those calls in the last six months than the six months prior.
     
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  6. epee.amnesiac

    epee.amnesiac Rookie

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    Anton - unfortunately with refereeing trends, there's never an official decision or any resource that this information is published or posted besides just watching videos, discussing with national and international refs, etc. These shifts tend to happen more naturally as fencing adapts and discussions are had and new generations of referees emerge. You'll sometimes see trends in a local area versus the national events as well. The best way to gain information on this is to just practice, watch, and keep asking questions.
     
  7. InFerrumVeritas

    InFerrumVeritas DE Bracket

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    I think it's also worth noting that changes in refereeing are often in response to changes in fencing/coaching. If an action starts happening more often, you'll see closer consensus on how it's called even if this isn't ever explicitly discussed.
     

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