Ok, I think I should know these, but I don't, so I'll ask, because I'm sure there are other people that don't know. A couple of assorted questions about cards that can be given: 1) Say at 4-4, both fencers already have a yellow. A guy gets a touch, then has a crazy over the top celebration. The ref wants to card him for it. If he does not want to black, his best option would be a red for disturbing order, and even if didn't want to do that, anything else would be at least a red. If he gives this, would it annul is last touch, and give the opponent the win? Or would his victory stand? 2) At the end of a close DE bout, a fencer wins then has a crazy over the top celebration where he gets black carded. Would this mean the other fencer has effectively won the bout, or that the original winner still won the bout, but is then ejected from the event? I think in both of these the exact timing may matter. If I win a DE then have a crazy celebration 10 minutes later, I still won my DE. But, if I celebrate before shaking and signing, did I still win the bout? Thanks in advance!