Body cord glove slot

Discussion in 'Armory - Q&A' started by Purple Fencer, Aug 14, 2018.

  1. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2001
    Messages:
    16,363
    Likes Received:
    587
    Ok...I could swear I saw something in writing confirming that the slot IS, in fact, officially gone.

    Any truth to that? I'm updating my prep package and would like to be accurate.
     
  2. Stormbringer

    Stormbringer DE Bracket

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2008
    Messages:
    711
    Likes Received:
    57
    FIE Material Rules, as of Dec. 2017:
    "Under no circumstances should there be any hole in the hand of the glove, even to allow the passage of the body wire."

    There does not seem to be an identical statement in the USA Fencing Rules as of the June 2018 edition.
     
  3. Blackwood

    Blackwood DE Bracket

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    29
    If you mean you are looking for an official statement that the body cord slot is not allowed, I don't remember seeing one.

    When the inspection of gloves was first introduced, there was much discussion of what exactly the inspection should look for. Mergs made a post (perhaps in 2014) here that explained his position on the issue and I copied the text for use with the scholastic league I work with. I have tried searching and can't find the post to verify the wording is completely accurate, but the following is what I saved.
    1. There is no requirement concerning the size, or the presence, of the bodycord hole. Period.
    2. Checks on gloves are to consist of a visual inspection of the glove for holes, tears, broken seams. Worn spots through the top layer of material that are judged to be large enough to catch a blade should be reason to reject the glove.
    3. A glove should not be rejected due to design features, which includes the size of the bodycord hole, vents in the sides or top of the fingers, or vents in the top of the glove. The application of the 'it could catch a blade' is not grounds for requiring a fencer to modify their glove and in my opinion should be challenged and taken to the BC.
    As I've said in previous threads, I am working to get a consistent, and codified, set of inspection criteria and procedures put in place through the NO.
    Perhaps Mergs or one of the other armorers could comment on whether this is USA Fencing's current policy.
     
  4. brtech

    brtech Podium

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2003
    Messages:
    2,380
    Likes Received:
    183
    We currently allow designed-in slits for body cords. We tend to adopt changes in FIE rules, sometimes with a delay.
    There is always judgement involved. You can't get a completely consistent inspection criteria. "judged large enough to catch a blade" is an example. We also tend to be somewhat lenient about cord resistance, which varies a bit by what the head tech tells his crew. It's never more stringent than the rule, but we often allow more.
     
    Privateer likes this.
  5. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2001
    Messages:
    16,363
    Likes Received:
    587
    Thanks, Brian!
     
    Privateer likes this.
  6. Mergs

    Mergs Podium

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2000
    Messages:
    3,560
    Likes Received:
    237
    What Brian said.
     
    Privateer likes this.
  7. Privateer

    Privateer Podium

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,111
    Likes Received:
    136
    I continue to (as of this past spring) have fencers from our Division report to me another nearby Division does not allow body cord notches.

    Has the standard been widely communicated?
     
  8. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2001
    Messages:
    16,363
    Likes Received:
    587
    Lemme guess....a certain Div to your south??
     
  9. brtech

    brtech Podium

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2003
    Messages:
    2,380
    Likes Received:
    183
    All armorers on the "hire list" have been told. But that leaves out local/regional armorers. Any of the national office sanctioned tournaments, such as RYCs are required to have the head tech at least be on the hire list (not necessarily a NAC-qualified head tech). That rule has not been enforced well and we're trying to fix that.
     
    Privateer likes this.
  10. Privateer

    Privateer Podium

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,111
    Likes Received:
    136
    good to know, thank you.

    The most recent case was a vet foil fencer who came back to the sport after a hiatus. My suggestion to them was "It's supposed to be OK, but gloves are cheap. buy a new glove for when your current glove gets denied."
     
  11. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Messages:
    36,822
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    Can't say the same for sabre any more.

    I wonder how long it will be ere the FIE-standard requirement creeps into the other weapons. You know it's only a matter of time.
     
  12. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Messages:
    36,822
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    Who else has access to this secret list? Organizers, for instance, I would think should have access---otherwise how do they know who they can approach to hire and who not?

    NB I have never had to hire an armorer or head armorer, but if I did I should think that it would be...difficult...if everyone eligible were anonymous.
     
  13. brtech

    brtech Podium

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2003
    Messages:
    2,380
    Likes Received:
    183
    First of all, the armorers know if they are or aren't. Just ask them.
    Secondly, you can ask [email protected]
    We can look into providing some automated service if this gets to be a problem, but we don't think there is a problem and we're not posting a list that has names, addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, etc.
     
  14. DHCJr

    DHCJr Armorer

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2002
    Messages:
    5,423
    Likes Received:
    207
    What are you trying to hide? Who said anything about addresses, phone numbers, email addresses? To fence, you must be a member and US Fencing provides a list of the members. Even though they have addresses, phone numbers, email addresses that is not on the list. Why not provide the information that is already out there?

    Do they know? I didn't! I had to bug you, e-mail [email protected], contact everyone I knew for over a year to find out. Considering I have been Head Armorer for Olympics, Worlds, World Cups, Nationals, NAC's, Sectionals, I wondered one year why I didn't get an availability request, so I asked someone to send me one. No response! The next year I sent in an availability list and again no response. I then started having to make public outcry, because I was getting nothing from [email protected]. Finally I found out I had not been on the armorers list for years. If US Fencing, USOC, FIE, IOC sanctions someone they let them know. That way they have a right to refute it. But considering this has been years, how can what charges were brought against me at this secret trial.

    What are you trying to hide?
     
    InFerrumVeritas likes this.
  15. Privateer

    Privateer Podium

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,111
    Likes Received:
    136
    maybe the hire list discussion can move to it's own thread to avoid dilution.
     
  16. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Messages:
    36,822
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    Hmm. There is potential for both misunderstanding and dissembling there. I want to work, so "Sure, I'm on the list". Who will ever know, if no one outside of the in-group can check?



    So that's good. As long as there is a way to know, an official check of whether or not someone is on the list and can be hired or a way to get the name of someone to contact to hire.


    That's fine, I just wanted to know how one would access a confidential list to transact legitimate business if you aren't already on or in control of said list. As long as there's a way to check, I was sort of getting the impression that it was a "If you don't already know you aren't allowed to know" situation.
     
  17. Strytllr

    Strytllr DE Bracket

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2003
    Messages:
    670
    Likes Received:
    113
    hm. I wonder if that's will work like a pair of "referees" that were hired at an event last year around November who both told the bout committee that they were +checked members and on the referee lists, but later were found to not even have renewed their memberships *GASP*...
    Sorry, but imaginary lists are crap. and asking someone to vouch for themselves is also crap.
     
    InFerrumVeritas and Allen Evans like this.
  18. Stormbringer

    Stormbringer DE Bracket

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2008
    Messages:
    711
    Likes Received:
    57
    There is no need to include "addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, etc".

    It would be analogous to the USRC FRED page, where it would have a name, division affiliation, active/retired indicator, whether the armorer is on the hire list, and the highest-level USA Fencing event worked (e.g. "local", "ROC", "RYC/SYC", "NAC", "SN"), and whether the armorer has worked at any international/FIE events.

    (Though, as someone who has had to seek out referees to hire for tournaments, I must admit that having the option to include a contact e-mail on the USRC FRED page (if even just an "(name)@USRCFRED.com" dummy address that then forwards to a real e-mail address) would be immensely helpful.)
     

Share This Page