Are there no good questions left?

Discussion in 'Armory - Q&A' started by twisterfencing, May 19, 2014.

  1. bobb121

    bobb121 Podium

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    So to elaborate, you are brought an epee. You hook up a multimeter and it doesn't go off.
    You take off the tip and create an A-B short using a flathead screwdriver to connect the two pins and the weapon works.

    You take off the old contact spring and put a new one on by a half turn. After putting the tip in the meter doesn't show any movement of the needle. So, either the spring is too short or the pins are not level(ie the A line pin is lower than the B line pin).

    Now, how do you verify that one pin is lower than the other and how do you fix it?
     
  2. DHCJr

    DHCJr Armorer

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    Since you asked it twice, I am guessing that you are wanting an answer you don't have. If you are asking this for a newbie to get, I am sorry.

    First, when you put in the screwdriver you could have checked the level by dropping the screwdriver, so it lines up across the pins and parallel to the sides. If you have to tip it to get a reading, they are not level. Another way is to use a small punch to do the same thing.

    For fixing that, it is hit or miss. The reason I say that, it could be the plastic could have a burr under one of the pins. That should have been checked before using it in the first place. If that is the case, the fix may destroy the cup all together.

    The standard way is to push down the high pin with that same screwdrivers. It can be done with the punch, but for me I feel it may put too much pressure on the plastic.

    The other fix, which is only temporary and I only use if I detect a burr, is to pull up slightly the lower pin and try and dig up some plastic around the pin to keep it up.
     
  3. bobb121

    bobb121 Podium

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    Thanks for the input Donald. I was trying to clarify it for a newbie to answer.
    My take on it would be to use an epee contact reamer to make the pins level.
    I would appreciate your opinion on this option.

    Thanks again.
     
  4. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    Specifically, a 3/32 flat head punch, if it's a German wire. I use the flat end of my mandrel for the French and LP wires I encounter.

    Well, you don't have to pound it into submission...a few light taps usually does the job for me.

    I could see that being doable on a French or LP wire....not on the German, due to the volcano tip.

    Leveling the contacts happens for me when I'm wiring a blade in the first place...it's part of my normal routine. 2 birds, one stone (setting the wire and leveling in the same action).
     
  5. twisterfencing

    twisterfencing Podium

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    OK,

    Just thought of a good one that might just help out some newbie epee fencers that might just run across this thread and read:

    Epee Blade wire:
    Three different manufacturers

    1. FWF German Epee Blade Wire
    2. LP English Epee Blade Wire
    3. PBT Epee Blade Wire

    All three blade wires will all work in a normal (meaning not a hybrid) epee barrel. Yes, they all fit, yes they will all function - skip that debate, they all do.

    Now, here is the question:

    All three of them above are different in what area. What is different about them and which one do you prefer to use?
    Note: there is one single large manufacturing difference between all of them. Insulation is not the what we are looking for.

    Gary
     
  6. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    Haven't seen a PbT in a looong time, but I'm guessing the cup design?
     
  7. SJCFU#2

    SJCFU#2 Podium

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    If that's the case then Prieur should probably be added to the list - their cup design is certainly different from most others (and something an armorer should be aware of when rewiring).
     
    DHCJr likes this.
  8. bobb121

    bobb121 Podium

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    Epee Blade wire:
    Three different manufacturers

    1. FWF German Epee Blade Wire
    -The wire is crimped to the pins inside a volcano like cup
    2. LP English Epee Blade Wire
    -The wire is held in place with pins to the cup
    3. PBT Epee Blade Wire
    *the wire is soldered to the pins inside the cup

    I prefer the PBT Wire.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
  9. twisterfencing

    twisterfencing Podium

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    bobb121 has it 100% correct!

    All the below blade wires have a different fastening process to the contact.

    FWF is crimpted
    LP is the nail to applied pressure process
    PBT is the only one that is actually soldered, how they get that wire in the contact and solder it, I cannot figure out.

    OK,

    Now which one is better??



     
  10. DHCJr

    DHCJr Armorer

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    First, I want to expand on what SJFCU#2 stated, which also used soldered connections. What made it different was the spacer. When I was just starting out, the spacer sometimes gave me problems. It would stay in the barrel and since it was a thin walled ring, you might not be able to see that it was still in there. I got into the habit of checking how deep the shelf inside the barrel was. If it was too short I knew it still had a spacer in it.

    For my personal weapons, I make my own wires. It is actually fairly easy to solder the connections. First bare the ends of the wire about an 1/8" and push them through the cup two holes for a couple of inches. Tin the wires lightly. Place on the connector, which is a hollow nail. Leon Paul sells them. Using a solder gun, heat the base of the connector to seal the wire to the connector. When cool pull on the wire to make sure it is soldered and to pull the connector to the cup. Then you can push the connector down into the holes. You now have a completed wire.
     
  11. K O'N

    K O'N Podium

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    So you just re-use the plastic cups? Where do you get the wire stock? How much does it end up costing you per wire? Do you ever find that the connector slips in the cup too much? Many years ago I would re-solder broken wires like this when they came from the manufacturer with bad connections between the wire and the connector, but once the connector had been pulled out and pushed back into the cup a few times it was a much looser fit. It would eventually (pretty fast, actually) get pushed down flush with the top of the cup by the contact spring, and you had to re-wire the weapon.
     
  12. DHCJr

    DHCJr Armorer

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    When I first with Long Beach State, yes. Even though we were NCAA, we were not funded well. I was saving money. I could make a wire for a few cents. I made both Epee and Foil, which is much easier. They used Prieur wires, which like PBT soldered their connectors, I push out the connector, desolder and I would use rewrap wire to make new ones. And yes, once or sometimes twice I could get away with reusing the cup, but when I first got there they had lots and lots of old broken blades with the connectors available. For personal weapons I would use one Blue and one Green wire. Made it easier to spot.

    Leon Paul sells good wire, which I would use also. You can also get pins and cups. Most likely, you can get cups from others.
     
  13. K O'N

    K O'N Podium

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    Huh. Ok, the pins:

    http://www.leonpaulusa.com/cgi-bin/...Epee_Point_Wire_Brass_Pins.html#aE22BP#aE22BP

    .43 each, so .86 per wire.

    The bulk wire:

    http://leonpaulusa.com/acatalog/Epee_Blade_Wire_10_metre_Roll.html

    $10.48 for 20m. You need 2m per wire, so about $1 per wire.

    The cup:

    http://leonpaulusa.com/acatalog/Epee_Point_Wire_Nylon_Block.html

    $7.83 EACH? Surely that's a mistake, maybe it's a bag of ten or something.

    A complete wire:

    http://leonpaulusa.com/acatalog/Complete_Epee_Point_Wire.html

    $3.31

    I just don't see the savings here. I have to make the damned things, no doubt I'll mess a few up, there's considerable cost if they go bad by the pins sliding or something after the weapon is assembled, and even if I re-use old cups the savings are only about a buck per wire. I think it's not worth it to me.
     
  14. twisterfencing

    twisterfencing Podium

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    Back on topic,

    Herding cats,

    OK,

    Which one is better?
    Yes, I know that they all work.

    Gary

     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
  15. twisterfencing

    twisterfencing Podium

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    With the numbers below, even if you broke it out to 100 blade wires, your still going to loose making them yourself.

    Maybe that is the marketing in the math. buy them pre-assembled.

    Gary

     
  16. DangerMouse

    DangerMouse Podium

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    Depends on what you mean by better. I've had a lot of issues with LP wires pulling out of the cup. I've had issues with the volcano cups on the German wires catching and bending contact springs. The PbT wires are the best design, but I've had QC issues with them where I've had a bunch of DOA wires in some batches. All this taken into account, I buy either German or AF wires.
     
  17. K O'N

    K O'N Podium

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    I haven't noticed a difference in quality between any of the manufacturing techniques. Soldered, crimped, whatever, they all kick up a dud every once in a while.

    I buy Sport 7 or Absolute wires. I hate the stupid German volcano cups, they're idiotic. PBT are almost twice as much as Sport 7, and they still have a bad one every once in a while. The AF wire is probably the best, and it's under $4 each, so I should probably go with that, but I still get Sport 7 out of habit.
     
  18. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    I had so many wires pull out of the crimp on Sport 7s that I stopped buying them entirely...German style for me. I haven't see the spring catching the volcano tip very often.

    I've switched to Allstar wires over FWF or one reason...the insulation FWF started using a year or so back....a real pain to strip (it's the really dark blue stuff). FWF seems to have gone back to the lighter blue silk wrap that's FAR easier to remove...there just might be more of the harder stuff in the epee product stream.

    Allstar wires have not changed, afaik.
     
  19. monitorlizerd

    monitorlizerd DE Bracket

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    in the dark side of your dreams....
    I must confess, I use whatever the customer uses...French, German, I don't care. But I preferred soldered. The one wire I WILL NOT use is Leon Paul, because of the (to me) totally unreliable friction fit of pin to wire, which makes it difficult and time-consuming to work with. For epee I'll use German instead, or Twisters' hybrid for foil. (thanks, Gary!)
     
  20. K O'N

    K O'N Podium

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    Are AF epee wires crimped or soldered? Do they actually have a lower failure rate than Sport 7, in y'all's experiences?

    I need to order a bunch of wires here pretty soon, and it's occurring to me that AF really might be a better idea.

    On a related note, I need economy club blades. I was thinking about getting a bunch of LP non-FIE, but they're $67, and they do break, even pretty fast when they're bent backwards, as club blades sometimes are. So I was thinking about getting a dozen Dinamo from Absolute for $30 each, unwired. I have a bucket of tip parts, so the cost to wire them is a $4 wire and some time, which I don't mind doing.

    Have any of you used these recently? They used to be pretty good blades for the money.
     

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