Another foil tip question thread

Discussion in 'Armory - Q&A' started by ktinoue3, Jan 23, 2018.

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Which tip for foil?

  1. FWF extra

    50.0%
  2. FWF v2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Standard German tip (FWF, Allstar, Uhlmann)

    14.3%
  4. French

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Allstar screwless

    21.4%
  6. other

    14.3%
  1. ktinoue3

    ktinoue3 DE Bracket

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    So looking through the forums it appears most people prefer fwf extra tips vs fwf v2 due to the recessed screws and thicker walls preventing denting of the barrel.
    Is this still the general consensus?
     
  2. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    It IS why I've move my default tips to the Xtras. I haven't pushed a French point in years and rarely stock the parts.

    The V2 is a hardened barrel, but they still dent and jam like the original ones, and the "belgian" tips...plus the "belgians" are just a bad design...all the worst elements of the French and German in one sad package.
     
  3. neevel

    neevel Armorer

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    Some people like the v2 barrels because they are lighter. I use the Extras myself. Keep in mind that the Extra only reduces, but does not completely eliminate, problems with mashed screws. I've still had to toss a few Extra points on people's weapons due to damaged screws that could not be extracted. With the screws flush with the barrel, you may not be able to use transverse end-cutters to grasp the screw or a utility knife to cut a new slot like you can with the thinner-walled barrels. You still need to change out screws at the first sign of damage.
     
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  4. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    After successful trial, standardizing on screwless. Smoothly operates and I can quickly stretch a spring inter-bout.
     
  5. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    True, but it DID drop the rate of incidence a HUGE amount.
     
  6. bobb121

    bobb121 Podium

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    schermasport all the way
     
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  7. neevel

    neevel Armorer

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    The Uhlmann/Allstar? Based on my experience, you'll have issued with the end-flange of the tip failing since they're using a soft metal for it that deforms (akin to what happens with Sport 7 & Prieur foil tips). Also, good luck getting the plastic contact cup out of the barrel when you need to rewire, since you basically have to hammer it in to get it down past the threading. If they had just made the point the same outside diameter as a FWF extra the contact cup would go in smoothly, but they decided to keep the OD the same as the standard German foil point. I made my own wires using leftover Prieur foil contacts and cups I have around, but not many people will be able to do that.
     
  8. ktinoue3

    ktinoue3 DE Bracket

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    I am surprised that FWF hasn't tried to make a version of the screwless foil tip. I know they have a eepe screwless tip.
     
  9. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    Did it with Leon Paul wire and "German" contact. Left cup in place.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
  10. bobb121

    bobb121 Podium

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    They have and it is already homoogated
     
  11. twisterfencing

    twisterfencing Podium

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    FWF did have a screwless foil point (old Uhlmann/Allstar point), yet it did not sell in the numbers needed to keep.
    With a previous set of sales numbers, the question came up as a "why bother".
    Same as with me, I have access to several very fine screwless points. yet do not want to stock all the parts needed to keep it and repair it for years and then to only look at them and wonder why no one is buying them??
    Yes, there will be a few on this forum that will say: "but I want them", yet for me/us, we have to ask: is it worth it? The only answer I can give is that there is not a strong enough market for it.

    To get to your seed question of a point:
    The most common point is the "FWF German" standard point. Almost all vendors/re-seller's around the world use this point to use on all pre-wired blades due to price points and the fact Fencer's mainly only know the word: German. All else are hybrids. The second place point is for those that are used to the problems of the standard point and upgrade to a FWF Extra point to solve the dented barrel issue. For those that are looking for the super hybrids, in my experience, the Schermasport, aka: Italian point is very popular. The French style point: Sports 7 or Prieur are all but gone. I have not sold a French pointed foil in years. I have a ton of French inventory and have sung "Happy Birthday" to them many times.

    You will have those that say they have a German point on their foil and find out they have a hybrid called the Belgian. That gets confusing. You have the Uhlmann/Allstar hybrid as well. Why a hybrid? Those that sell that point are mainly from folks that get their blades directly from the re-seller of Uhlmann/Allstar and got the blades pre-wired from them in Germany. Not going into details about that point, but just know, I am not a fan.

    There are tons of points out there. There are many screwless points as well. Many have spent 1000's of dollars designing them and not selling them. Hence: you do not see many here in the US. I cannot answer for other re-sellers like myself, but can only assume, they feel the same as I do. No huge market for it, not going to sell it. Stick your money in what sells.

    The FWF epee screwless point: Masters, I carry it and sell it. Yet it is like what I have spoken about above a hybrid. Yes, we sell 10 to 20 of these a month, but know its not like the standard FWF German epee point that we sell 600 to 700 a month. See the difference??

     
  12. ktinoue3

    ktinoue3 DE Bracket

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    That makes sense. Why try something new when you have something that works.
     
  13. Purple Fencer

    Purple Fencer Podium

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    Then there's making something that clearly DOESN'T work and not changing it due to cost...Prieur's foil retaining clips come immediately to mind.
     
  14. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

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    I dunno, man. Why go to a smart phone when you have a flip phone that works? And why go to a flip phone when you have a "brick" phone that works?

    Because it might work even better than what you have which works. That's the whole driving idea behind innovation, technological improvement and higher living standards.
     
  15. neevel

    neevel Armorer

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    A couple of possible reasons why screwless points have not taken off:
    1. The tip of a point is a component that does need to be replaced with some frequency (not as much as springs or screws, but certainly more frequently than barrels). Screwless tips cost considerably more than standard tips (nearly twice as much, in the case of the Uhlmann/Allstar points).
    2. While there are no screws to be damaged, a strong enough blow could dent the threading of the tip and barrel, which would require the entire point to be replaced.
     
  16. ktinoue3

    ktinoue3 DE Bracket

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    When the Technology is reliable and worth the extra costs I agree. But if there is something that works and newer tech doesn't have a significant improvement or other negatives outweigh those improvements then might as well stick with what works.

     
  17. Emfuser

    Emfuser DE Bracket

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    The tightness of the barrels on some early batches of the Uhlmann/Allstar screwless design was a manufacturing flaw. They have since rectified it and even replaced the first batch I received when I noticed I could not properly seat a wire cup into them and got in touch with Uhlmann.
     
  18. neevel

    neevel Armorer

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    Good to know. Hopefully they also fixed the issues I encountered with the metal of the end-flange deforming and breaking.
     
  19. Mac A. Bee

    Mac A. Bee is a Verified Fencing ExpertMac A. Bee Podium

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    Just noticed a current batch's end-flange screwed-on vs. press-fit. The loosened flange short-circuited. Easy fix.
     

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