A few point-in-line questions

Discussion in 'Fencing Discussion' started by haroldbuck, Jan 26, 2012.

  1. haroldbuck

    haroldbuck Made the Cut

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2004
    Messages:
    347
    Likes Received:
    20
    Yes, I know everyone will think that this thread sucks because it's about PIL for foil/saber. But I have a few questions for which I think the answers are obvious, but not everyone agrees:

    (1) Fencer A is attacking and Fencer B establishes a point-in-line when Fencer A is within advance lunge distance. We know that if A finishes and both hit, it's A's touch. But A stops completely. B lunges with the line at the same time, before, or after A decides to attack, and both hit valid. Fencer A argues that the line is not valid because it was not established outside of advance-lunge distance.

    (2) Outside of adv-lunge distance, A establishes a PIL. B thinks this is a grand idea and also establishes PIL. They meander into distance and both hit valid.

    Rulings?

    Thanks much.
     
  2. Foil.Leicester

    Foil.Leicester Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    363
    Likes Received:
    22
    Distance has no bearing on PiL in the rules. Its ADVISABLE to establish it outside of step-lunge distance because it makes it easier for a ref to see it. But if its Line, its Line, shouldn't matter how close you are.

    There.
     
  3. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Podium

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2004
    Messages:
    2,223
    Likes Received:
    303
    Whitesnake. (Yep, I went there)


    I don't know where I'm goin
    But I sure know where I've been
    Hanging on the promises in rules of yesterday.
    An' I've made up my mind, I ain't putting out no line
    But here I go again, here I go again.

    Tho' I keep searching for an answer
    I never seem to find what I'm looking for.
    Oh ref, I pray you give me the call to carry on
    'Cause I know what it means to walk along the lonely street, Escrime.

    Here I go again on my own
    Clutchin' the only weapon I've ever known.
    Like a epeeist I was born to grunt and groan.
    An' I've made up my mind, I ain't using point-in-line.
     
  4. D'Art

    D'Art Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    3,273
    Likes Received:
    217
    How can not everyone agree on the answers? :darwin:
     
  5. edew

    edew Podium

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2000
    Messages:
    9,755
    Likes Received:
    342
    Basically this. First, advance-lunge distance is what you make of it. There's no actual numerical quantity that defines advance-lunge. Some fencers can cover a heckuva lot of ground with an advance-lunge and some can't. You can be advancing at me, I stick out my PiL and it's 2 inches from your chest (foil or saber), I retreat as you continue advancing and that tip is 2 inches away. You then commence your attack as I also lunge at you (possibly snapping by blade into multiple pieces). Still my PiL. The PiL was established prior to the start of the attack by the opponent. I'm trying to insinuate also that the multiple advances by the eventual "attacker" was done not as part of a compound attack, just normal advances.
     
  6. erooMynohtnA

    erooMynohtnA Podium

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,970
    Likes Received:
    616
    I don't know why everyone is trying to answer this. There is only one qualified person on this board: purplefencer. However he says it should be called, it will be called the opposite. It's the Inverse PF law. I'm just going to wait for him to weigh in.
     
    Inquartata likes this.
  7. mattacox

    mattacox DE Bracket

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    308
    Likes Received:
    28
    How long is advance-lunge distance?
     
  8. the ancient one

    the ancient one DE Bracket

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    957
    Likes Received:
    109
    If you wear colorful socks or a bandana do not attempt a Point in Line.
    It will never be awarded in your favor, unless your opponent is similarly dressed.
    I base this conclusion on empirical evidence derived from a significantly large sample.
     
  9. fdad

    fdad Podium

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    4,129
    Likes Received:
    214
    John Lydon, Keith Levene, and Jah Wobble
     
  10. edew

    edew Podium

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2000
    Messages:
    9,755
    Likes Received:
    342
    And if you wear both a bandana and colorful socks, god help you get a point if there's two lights on. Even in epee.
     
  11. bigdawg2121

    bigdawg2121 Podium

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    3,997
    Likes Received:
    297
    PiL is clearly something no one understands. I thought I had a good idea of what it was supposed to be at least in theory but then I just heard a national coach say in no uncertain terms that you need at least two tempos to establish point in line in addition to some other things that made my head hurt; now I'm pretty sure I'm just going to call halt if I ever see a line and inform them that PiL is an invalid tactic as there are no premises that lead to whatever the conclusion may be.
     
  12. IanSerotkin

    IanSerotkin DE Bracket

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Messages:
    647
    Likes Received:
    189
  13. Craig

    Craig Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 1999
    Messages:
    6,435
    Likes Received:
    457
    12 parsecs.
     
  14. Allen Evans

    Allen Evans Podium

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2003
    Messages:
    4,780
    Likes Received:
    821
    No. You've got point in line confused with the Kessel Run.

    It's a common mistake.
     
  15. Inquartata

    Inquartata Podium

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2001
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    1,203
    Hurrah, another PIL thread! It's been, what? A couple of weeks? I was beginning to have withdrawal symptoms.
     
  16. shlepzig

    shlepzig Podium

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2003
    Messages:
    1,083
    Likes Received:
    66
    Two things:

    If a fencer has established PIL then it is PIL. Nobody knows how this is done, because it has never happened.

    If fencer A sticks out his arm in a way possibly resembling PIL after the other fencer has begun an action that has ROW, Fencer A deserves whatever he gets.
     
  17. rudd

    rudd Podium

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,380
    Likes Received:
    122
  18. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Podium

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2004
    Messages:
    2,223
    Likes Received:
    303
    Isn't PIL what Luke used to aim his photo torpedo into the air shaft of the Death Star?
     
  19. mfp

    mfp Podium

    Joined:
    May 10, 2002
    Messages:
    1,861
    Likes Received:
    240
    You may be horrified to hear that you know someone who won an epee national championship while wearing (very, very) colorful socks and a bandana. A bandana with skulls on it.
     
  20. D'Art

    D'Art Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    3,273
    Likes Received:
    217
    But what shoes were they wearing? And did they use an Italian grip while throwing flaming bagels and drinking Red Bull cola?
     

Share This Page